Russia s Expulsion of Bishop Assailed by Vatican: "Grave Violation" of Religious Rights

Zenit.org ^ | 2002-04-21 | Zenit.org

[history_matters]

We have already seen the systematic attempt to suppress the Catholic Church in Russia on other threads, but this expulsion underscores the gravity of the situation.

[history_matters]

FLAG!

[AKA Elena]

We are truly under new forms of Persecution! Time for another prayer to ST. MICHAEL!

[history_matters]

Jesus, King of the nations, have mercy on us.
Jesus, Lord of the Church, have mercy on us.
Jesus, High Priest and Savior, have mercy on us.

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
Our Lady of Czestachowa, pray for us.
Mary, Queen of All Saints, pray for us.

[weikel]

Putin has been a good ally and has been moving Russia to a true free market why are you trying to make him look bad?

[monday]

"We are truly under new forms of Persecution! Time for another prayer to ST. MICHAEL!"

LOL...thats a good one. Compared to what is happening elsewhere in the world, this is so mild as to not even register. Everyone knows that the Vatican and the Orthodox Church don't get along. This is just a little tiff.

[MarMema]

I guess Putin is saying no proselytizing here, thank you very much. Russia already has a faith and Russians should be Orthodox.

[history_matters]

He may well be saying that, but they will need to change their laws to make it clear that all but the Russian Orthodox Church will be suppressed.

Perhaps if the Russian Orthodox Church dissolved their dioceses in Catholic nations and recalled their clergy, one could understand a Russian Orthodox request of the Catholic Church to do the same in Orthodox lands.

[history_matters]

Trying to make Putin look bad is of no interest to me. His actions and choices make him look bad or good depending on one's preferences and prejudices. I am interested in a rule of law that protects relgious freedom in Russia that is being eroded in several different ways -- much of which looks like the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

[MarMema]

I didn't notice the Russian Orthodox patriarch visiting Catholic countries this last year and speaking of re-uniting. It seems to me that the pope is the one pushing that agenda.
Once the soviet union fell, protestants from this country were like vultures descending on Russia. Is this what the catholics want to do as well?
What is honorable or noble about trying to lure people from another faith to your own?
If the pope truly wanted to be respected by Russia, perhaps he should have spoken up about the Orthodox church in Lubov, Ukraine which was scheduled to be leveled in order for the pope to make *one* public appearance in that town. It wouldn't hurt for him to return the icon he has which belongs to the Russian church and which he has kept and refused to return, like a child - because he is awaiting an invitation to Russia.
And finally he could choose traveling companions to Ukraine other than Ziggy Brezinski, a known Russophobe.
I don't see that Russia owes anything to the pope or to any members of his church. It is their right to allow into their country those whom they wish to allow to enter.

[history_matters]

Actually there are treaties that oblige Russia to admit those have refused, and that is a matter of treaty and law.

[history_matters]

I didn't notice the Russian Orthodox patriarch visiting Catholic countries this last year and speaking of re-uniting. It seems to me that the pope is the one pushing that agenda.

No, not the Pope, but rather Our Lord Jesus Christ who prayed that we all would be one.

[history_matters]

p i n g

[McGavin999]

Don't you think it might be a good idea to find out WHY this Bishop was refused? Perhaps the Russians are disturbed about the stories that are coming out about Priests in the USA. They have finally been allowed to return to God and maybe they want to make sure their people are not disillusioned. They could be wanting to wait until the Holy Father makes his final statement on what has been happening. It's a shame that all priests must be tarred by this ugly brush, but, the Russians are extremely fond of their children.

[history_matters]

No, I do not think so.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

MarMema be fair. You know Catholics do not proselytize like the Protestants, fundamentalists and cults do. They are the main ones causing problems there now. This latest tiff is simply another example of centuries of hurts, slights and bad blood that has not been resolved.

[history_matters]

Perhaps the Russians are disturbed about the stories that are coming out about Priests in the USA.

No, I do not think so.

[Aliska]

It wouldn't hurt for him to return the icon he has which belongs to the Russian church and which he has kept and refused to return, like a child - because he is awaiting an invitation to Russia.

Do you know that for fact or are you just speculating? Was that icon in Portugal? How did it get to Rome?

[american colleen]

Thought this article was interesting... and along the same lines.

The Conversion of Russia —To Islam!

In Moscow alone there are 1 million Muslims today. That’s nearly ten times the number of Russian-born Catholics in all of Russia. Muslims now comprise about 5% of the total Russian population, outnumbering Catholics by anywhere from 30-to-1 to 60-to-1, depending on which statistics you use.

The expansion of Islam in Russia since “the fall of communism” in 1991 has been assured by Russia’s 1997 law on “freedom of religion,” which enshrines Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and, of course, Russian Orthodoxy as “traditional religions” entitled to legal existence. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, must register its “pastoral points” (which the Vatican will not call parishes, lest the Orthodox be offended) each year, and no foreign-born Catholic priest may remain in Russia for more than three months without leaving the country to renew his visa. Needless to say, the Catholic Church won’t be sinking any roots in Russia under this regimen.

Meanwhile, Zenit.org, citing a BBC report, informs us that “Mayor Yuriy Luzhkov attended a service Monday at the city's main mosque to mark Eid al-Adha, the Muslim feast of sacrifice, and promised to help provide more facilities for Moscow's million-strong Muslims.” The article goes on to observe that “because of their higher birthrate and increasing cultural and religious self-confidence [the] Muslims are likely to increase both in absolute numbers and in their proportion of the population.” On the other hand, the Catholic population can be expected to shrink proportionately in Russia, just as it has been shrinking proportionately throughout Europe since “the springtime of Vatican II” got underway.

Zenit notes that “In terms of political orientation, [Muslims] have tended to vote for the Communist Party, as the bastion of conservatism and regional elites ...” For this reason, “Russia's leaders may have decided the time has come to court the growing Muslim constituency before its loyal, Tatar leadership gives way to more militant trends that seek guidance from abroad.”

So, the Muslim population of Russia continues to grow apace, and Russia’s leaders are now courting the Muslims because they make good communists! Meanwhile, foreign-born Catholic priests—which means every priest in Russia except three!—are not even allowed to maintain permanent residence in that country. Yes, it does seem that the “conversion of Russia” is taking place, after all—a conversion to Islam, according to current trends.

Article from here: Fatima Perspective

[Unam Sanctam]

There are descendants of Polish and other Latin-rite Catholic people in Russia. They have a right to practice their religion in peace. The Orthodox define the mere existence of Catholics as "proselytization". The Russian state is denying this. That contradicts the Russian constitution's guarantee of religious freedom. And in any event, is there not freedom of speech in Russia? So long as there is no coercion, why should not the followers of any faith be entitled to evangelize publicly? If people don't want to listen, they can walk away. Why can't the Orthodox Church be proud of its beliefs and traditions and depend upon them to protect it from fair competition in the religious marketplace?