Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

PUC Unveils Plan for PG&E : Customers would pay -- to help restore utility's fiscal health.
The Los Angeles Times ^ | April 16, 2002 | TIM REITERMAN, TIMES STAFF WRITER

Posted on 04/16/2002 2:40:06 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

SAN FRANCISCO -- State regulators unveiled a reorganization plan for Pacific Gas & Electric Co. on Monday that calls for customers to pay $4.7 billion--or $1.4 billion more than the stockholders would--to restore the company to financial health.

But the California Public Utilities Commission contends that its plan filed in federal Bankruptcy Court avoids $13.5 billion in higher energy and other costs associated with PG&E's own plan.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: bankrupcty; california; calpowercrisis; davis; government; power; puc
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-65 next last
See Link for the remainder of the article .
1 posted on 04/16/2002 2:40:06 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ;Calpowercrisis;randita;SierraWasp; Carry_Okie; okie01; socal_parrot; snopercod; quimby...
Calpowercrisis:
To find all articles tagged or indexed using Calpowercrisis, click below:
  click here >>> Calpowercrisis <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)



2 posted on 04/16/2002 2:41:23 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The PUC is a snake in the grass
3 posted on 04/16/2002 2:53:58 PM PDT by Angelique
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I notice that neither side has proposed that PG&E simply pay its power suppliers a "fair" rate for the power the state purchased on their behalf and let these power suppliers worry about eating several billion in "excess" profits.

These power suppliers have seemed to survived without the extra cash so far.

Wonder why?

4 posted on 04/16/2002 3:27:40 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag
Checked the stock of any those suppliers lately?

There is a real danger when the government starts deciding what is a fair or excess profit. We tried that experiment for about 70 years.

It was called the Soviet Union.

5 posted on 04/16/2002 3:31:46 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
There is a real danger when the government starts deciding what is a fair or excess profit

Point well taken but ....

The profits of these company are felt by many (the people) to be obscene and artificially created in a not so "free market place".

These deservedly, much maligned, "long term" contracts negotiated in secret by Grayout probably represent a resonable profit for the suppliers and would be a good starting point for the wrangling.

6 posted on 04/16/2002 3:38:21 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag
They might, but Grayout wants out of those contracts, too.

Here's the problem. Davis and Lockyer don't mind at all if these companies sell at a loss and go bankrupt. They've already proven that.

They are also unwilling to let free market forces be unleashed which would create the same benefits in buying electricity as we have in buying any other commodity, like ketchup, for example. There's no need for long term ketchup supply contracts, because the free market works to keep it in ample supply and at reasonable prices.

Instead, we have political spin machines putting out garbage about gouging and artificial shortages. As always, government meddling makes things worse. Davis, et al, are making California an ugly place to consider putting a power plant. What are the economic consequences of that, as California grows to 50 million people in the next 20 years?

7 posted on 04/16/2002 3:49:20 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
AS long as we're on the subject .....

The prediciment facing some of the rate payers in California appears to have three contributing sources. 1)The profit driven nature of free enterprise (the power producers and the utilities affected), 2) the responsibilies of the State of California (the people of the state through their elected representatives) which created the flawed plan that lead to the disaster and 3)the rate payers themselves who refused to conserve in the face of obvious problems and then screamed when asked to pay the "not so fair" price for their excesses.

The two plans provided look only to the rate payers and the utilities to provide relief. Neither plan looks toward the power producers or the State of California (the tax payer) for a portion of the relief.

8 posted on 04/16/2002 3:58:08 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
let free market forces be unleashed

If production and distribution of power were amenable to the free market that would work but they aren't.

The basic fallacy lies in the production and distribution under present conditions.

Because power can't be economically transported great distances it is a regional matter. Because distribution is dependent upon the public domain (right of way) it is always subject to the artificial control of government.

Under prevailing conditions power is best left a regulated monoply subject to fair and equitable oversight. The system worked well for California for scores of years and would continue to provide a stable and relatively cheap commodity compared to the situation that unfolded in California in December 2000 and then some months later when San Diego when full monty with deregulation.

9 posted on 04/16/2002 4:10:01 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag
Under prevailing conditions power is best left a regulated monoply subject to fair and equitable oversight.

So you feel that we have had "fair and equitable oversight in this matter?

10 posted on 04/16/2002 4:16:52 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag

If production and distribution of power were amenable to the free market that would work but they aren't.

And you think the California deregulation experience proves your premise?

11 posted on 04/16/2002 4:19:18 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach;lewislynn
Where is lewislynn these days. Did he/she die or get banned? Or did Davis lay him off?
12 posted on 04/16/2002 4:33:45 PM PDT by snopercod
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
By what authority does California file a reorganization plan for a public utility. Are they a creditor? I thought it was the other way around: The state owed PGE money.
13 posted on 04/16/2002 4:35:42 PM PDT by snopercod
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: snopercod
I thought I saw a big flame war going on the other day with one of the participants being LL!
14 posted on 04/16/2002 4:38:15 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: snopercod
Davis writes his own rules for us here in the Socialist State of Kalifornia!!
15 posted on 04/16/2002 4:39:21 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
So you feel that we have had "fair and equitable oversight in this matter

In 1990 PG&E's, first tier, retail price for power varied seasonally between $.083 to $0.093 per Kwh. In 2001 that same power cost from $.093 to $.125 per Kwh.

That's a 33% increase during peak need plus blackouts plus major investment uncertainty so I'd say yes the regulated market was superior to the California style deregulated market.

16 posted on 04/16/2002 4:48:19 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag
The lead time on a power plant is in the neigborhood of four years. The deregulated market (to the extent it was deregulated in a significant way) was less then four years old during the shortage. The shortage was created under regulation.

If anybody cares I've written trading, scheduling and risk management software used in the following markets CA, Chile, Australia, England and wales (one market), Ireland, Alberta. We saw Davis getting long term contracts, knowing he was a babe in the woods we knew he would overpay.

Further disclosure, I can't say everything I know.

17 posted on 04/16/2002 4:55:58 PM PDT by Dinsdale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Dinsdale
The shortage was created under regulation.

Correction ... planning for the shortage was absent during regulation or .....willingness to accommodate increases in supply were absent during regulation.

Any nonproprietary predictions you'd be willing to offer with regard to the path to resolution of the current California crisis?

18 posted on 04/16/2002 5:24:41 PM PDT by Amerigomag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag;robert357;dog gone;
I'll offer one!

There will only a few (perhaps even none )privately financed power plants built in the State of California in the next few years , particularly while a democratic assembly and Governor are in charge in this State!!!

19 posted on 04/16/2002 5:31:55 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Amerigomag
It's not hard to predict. There will be an oversupply in the next few years. Capital has been drawn into the market, many plants are being constructed.

A good parrallel is the english power pool. In the first two years prices were up significantly and there were charges of generators gaming the system. This drew in large amounts of capital. All the new high efficency combined cycle gas plants came on line at about the same time. Not only was load growth covered but many of the same old inefficent plants that had been accused of gaming the system were forced to shut down as they were no longer economical.

In CA this will be exaserbated by the fact that deregulation took place during a dry hydro period in the pacific northwest. That means the price spike was extra sharp and hence even more capital was drawn into the market. Extra plants are being constructed. When hydro conditions improve the supply of power in the west will be further boosted.

This is not that unusual a phenomenon. Equilibrium prices tend to follow a square pattern for all commodities that have long lead times, be they power plants, RAM or engineers time. What I'm saying is the supply curve tends to jump, not shift gradually as all players are responding to the same market forces and face about the same lead times.

20 posted on 04/16/2002 5:44:11 PM PDT by Dinsdale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-65 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson