Huge hydrogen stores found below Earth's crust.

The Vancouver Sun ^ | April 15, 2002 | Robert Matthews

[texlok]

So will this get us away from buying oil from the middle-east, or will the environmentalists freak out if we start bringing hydrogen up?

It's a few years off, but should be interesting.

[LarryLied]

Lieberman will filibuster it as he is doing ANWR

[rbmillerjr]

I'll try anything to disassociate from any and all Arabs Bump

[Henk]

Of course they will oppose it. Water vapor is a much more potent global warming gas than carbon dioxide.

[Darth Sidious]

So this stuff makes water as it burns, huh? Multiply times the number of autos and there's yer recipe for "Waterworld" :-)

[null and void]

They'll freak. Think of all the excess water we'll be pumping into the atmosphere! It will alter the weather! Floods and devastation everywhere! The sky is falling! Yikes! It RAINED!!!

[mgc1122]

I can guarantee the green weenies and their Democratic allies will oppose it's use as a replacement for fossil fuel.

The reasons? There are two.

First, the lefties cannot abide the successful continuation of capitalism, and cheap clean energy would be devastating for them.

Second, the use of hydrogen will eliminate a great deal of their "issues" for raising money for Mother Earth Inc.

That said, let's start the drilling ... for oil in ANWR as well as hydrogen. Let's get cranking on those hydrogen cells. Oh, and last memo OPEC and tell 'em to stick the oil where the sun don't shine.

[RightWhale]

will this get us away from buying oil from the middle-east

There might be a lot of hydrogen in the rock, but throw a few rocks in the fireplace and see how well they burn. How to extract the hydrogen and concentrate it without spending more energy doing so than you would get back from burning the hydrogen, that's the problem.

[another cricket]

Energy specialists estimate that oil production will start to decline within the next 10 to 15 years, as the economically viable reserves start to run out.

I have been hearing this since I was six. That was more then ten to fifteen years ago.

Having said that if it will keep us from needing to kiss up to the ME for energy I am all for it. But don't look for the oil industry to collapse completely. We will still need oil for plastics and lubricants.

a.cricket

[boris]

The problem with hydrogen is that at its densest--as a cryogenic liquid at -423 F, it is only 4.4 pounds per cubic foot. Compare with gasoline at ~50 lb per cubic foot. Hydrogen liberates 3-4 times more energy per pound but only 1/3 as much per gallon.

The idea of citizens pumping liquid hydrogen into their cars is ludicrous. The tanks would be enormous, very costly due to extreme insulation requirements, etc.

Storage as a high-pressure gas is even worse, since the density of 10,000 psi hydrogen is 2.45 lb/ft3, i.e, almost two times worse than liquid hydrogen.

The right way to use H2 reserves is to convert coal to hydrocarbon fuels. With enough H2, energy, and coal, you can make any hydrocarbon fuel you want: gas, diesel, natural gas, propane, etc. The energy part comes from nuclear plants, eh?

--Boris

[RightWhale]

since I was six. That was more then ten to fifteen years ago

We had that 20 year supply discussion in 5th grade in 1955. I believe it is no more than simply the design life for engineering projects. Everything is designed for 20 years because that is the point where present worth or cost-benefit analyses approximate an infinite period of time, forever.

As an aside, the estimate for time to production of the first nuclear fusion power plant is 40 years, and has been 40 years since the 50s. To my thinking, this means twice as long as forever, or, don't plan on it.

[Regulator]

The energy density issue is real but your comment on tanks is outdated. From the use of metal hydrides to carbon nanotubes, tank technology for hydrogen storage is THE defining research, apart from GM's sideline into using Reformer's.

Obviously there are energy balance considerations to this discovery, but where there's a resource...

Comment:
abstracting the gas

Do you think he meant extracting the gas?

[Salman]

First, the lefties cannot abide the successful continuation of capitalism, and cheap clean energy would be devastating for them.

Old left: Capitalism does not meet human needs. The government should control the means of production.

Response: Capitalism does so meet human needs. Socialism destroys the means of production.

New left: Who the hell are we humans to have our needs met? The government should destroy the means of production.
(OK they don't say it so baldly, but read between the lines.)

Response: Accept their premises and there is no response.

The old left accepted sane premises but had a bad idea about how to deal with the economy. The new left is insane.

[Cold Heat]

Depends on the cost to extract. The ocean is full of gold as well. More info required before I even think about this.

[BlueLancer]

"...virtually limitless supplies of clean fuel for cars..."

Oh, goody, now the freeway will be filled with hundreds of low-flying Hindenbergs.

Well, at least it ought to eliminate road rage after accidents.

[Regulator]

This might be of interest. You can comment on how wet they all are:

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Letter

[Willie Green]

Although formidable engineering problems remain to be overcome in abstracting the gas,

"Abstracting" the gas???

"ABSTRACTING"???

Good Gawd, the journalists and editors reporting the news are absolute, gosh-danged, brain-damaged idiots.

[abner]

A few points:

1. Remember the Hindenburg

2. I like plastic. I don't think you can get plastic from hydrogen.

[headsonpikes]

It's hard to believe someone in Texas would bother to read the Vancouver Sun. Here in Vancouver, it's about the only 'Sun' we get from October to April. ;^)

I'd still be putting my investment dollar into Alberta's Tarsands, however. That's a project which staggers the imagination also, but it's real and it's happening now.

[go star go]

I just know that I don't want to be nowhere around when one of them rocks sparks while being crushed...