Russian troops refuse combat

Boston Globe ^ | 4/10/2002 | David Filipov

[konijn]

YKTYVKAR, Russia - All the men in Major Igor Nevzorov's crack antiterrorism unit won medals for valor under fire when they led the Russian troops who stormed into Chechnya's capital, Grozny, two years ago.

But when their commanders ordered them back to the war-wrecked separatist region last month, Nevzorov and his men refused to go.

[konijn]

The Russians have 100.000 soldiers in a nation of 1 million Chechens and are getting a bad beating.
Looks like the Ruskies lost their war on 'Terrorism'.

[xm177e2]

But how many Chechens have died? It looks like the Russians win.

[Robert_Paulson2]

Time to withdraw... and do the unspeakable. Terrorist Islam must NOT survive the field of battle. Islam is attempting to breed-out all resistance.

[Jimmy Valentine]

This is the quintessential Russian problem:

1. crappy logistics, planning and supply

2. Generals who are careless of their wastage rate in men, substituting masses of men for tactics.

Every one wants to be Zhukov

Regards,

[lavaroise]

No no no, Russia has always excelled when it was "losing". It is part deception, part creation of a jungle over which the army has best control. Napoleon, Hitler and the rest broke their teeth on Russia when Russia was supposedly being routed and vastly inferior.

[Jimmy Valentine]

That means they won in Afghanistan?

[wafflehouse]

the rest broke their teeth on Russia when Russia was supposedly being routed and vastly inferior.

yes, but that wasnt something they planned ahead of time either.. you cant conquer russia before winter..

at the risk of underestimating russia, i'd go with jimmy on this one

[GBA]

"...the rebels seldom engage Russian troops in head-on firefights, preferring to lay mines and launch hit-and-run attacks, then blend back into the civilian population."

Wolverines!!!

[donozark]

The Chechens oft times flee to the Pankissy Valley in Georgia. Russians do not pursue. Just as the Taliturds/al Quaeda flee to Pakistan (from Afghanistan) and the Americans do not pursue. Perhaps when Americans enter Georgia and train a sufficient number of Georgian troops to effectively counter this "invasion" by Chechens, things will change?

As for whom won/lost in Chechnya to date? From the films, videos, and readings? Everyone has lost...

[AppyPappy]

Screw that. Bears, Badgers, Blinders and Backfires can carry a lot of bombs. Draw them out and WHAM!

[lavaroise]

That means they won in Afghanistan?

We are handing them Afghanistan on a platter right now.

Never say never with Russia.

[STD]

Hi AP,

It all comes down to money. Next thing "They will want the USA to pay for the war!"

[donozark]

You can't "draw them out" without boots on the ground. The politics of the thing destroy military efforts every time. Just as they did in Vietnam, the enemy flees across the borders to "neutral" countries where we are forbidden to enter (en masse).

By training Georgians to effectively counter this invasion, we may catch them between a "rock and a hard place." Aerial assets important. But they won't finish the task in Chechnya any more than Afghanistan.

[AppyPappy]

That's why you draw them out first. Draw them out and then WHAM!

[donozark]

Easier said than done. And it cannot be done without boots on the ground. Trained boots.

The situation is akin to the kid that picks a fight then runs home to the protection of his parents. Political concerns are preventing us from properly fighting this war on terrorism. Now that Putin has given us the "green light" to enter Georgia, things may change...no where to run, no where to hide. But again, we will need boots on the ground to clear the tunnels in the Pankissy Valley, just as we do in Afgh.

[AppyPappy]

The problem is that the Russkies tried to duke it out with the Chechnyans. That's nowhere. If you think the Chechnyan's are hiding somewhere, don't send ground troops in to shoot at them. Bomb them.

[Free the USA]

Check the Bump List folders for articles related to and descriptions of the above topic(s) or for other topics of interest.

[FreedomPoster]

Civilized Westerners (and it appears the Russians may now be in that category) may not have the viciousness required to do in Radical Islam. We killed mass quantities of noncombatant Germans and Japanese in WWII on the road to total defeat of their societies. We followed the immortal advice of William Tecumseh Sherman: "We cannot change the hearts of those people, but we can make war so terrible...[and] make them so sick of war that generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it." We have not seen a resurgence of German militarism nor Japanese Bushido for nearly six decades.

I just don't know if we, or the Russians, have the necessary ruthlessness in us yet. I fear, for us, it will take a WMD attack on American soil resulting in 10's or 100's of thousands of casualties before we fully awaken.

[donozark]

In fact the Russians DID bomb Grozny flat. Other urban areas of Chechnya. They likewise bombed vast areas of rural Chechnya. Just doesn't work without boots on the ground. And if they run away? They fight again another day. A military cannot "fix" the enemy without boots on the ground. Our SF ops were the "eyes" for our B-52s/F-14s/18s in Afgh. Otherwise it is saturation/carpet bombing, which doesn't accomplish all that much. In tunnels? Vietnamese oft times survived "hits" from B-52s within 100 meters of them. Now, thanks to laser-directional devices, we can place the same bombs within 12 feet! Bad news for those on the receiving end...