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Court Overturns Bookstore Ruling
http://www.abcnews.go.com/ ^ | April 8 2002 | AP

Posted on 04/08/2002 2:04:42 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK

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To: Crusader21stCentury
You are confusing issues. This case is solely about linking a book purchase to the criminal act. Just as in the case of a defendant checking out a book on poisons.
41 posted on 04/08/2002 3:42:48 PM PDT by spqrzilla9
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To: freeeee
What makes you so sure?

The only way that "right" exists is as a penumbra of an emanation of whatever was going through the judge's mind.

42 posted on 04/08/2002 3:45:04 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Crusader21stCentury
Let me see your library and just like a ham sandwich I bet I can indict you.

Actually, you couldn't. You see, I don't brew methamphetamine.

43 posted on 04/08/2002 3:46:09 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: foto
No, I believe you are looking at the issue incorrectly. The police can, with a proper warrant, investigate things far more intimate than a book purchase. Medical records, the contents of your house, what websites you've examined, banking records.

All these things are "protected" by the requirement of a showing that the police have good cause to link the search to a crime. This simply isn't any different. The idea that there is a special right of privacy greater than my medical records, my house, my bank records, in a book purchase is silly.

44 posted on 04/08/2002 3:46:33 PM PDT by spqrzilla9
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To: spqrzilla9
All the situations you mention are where they have a named defendant and are gearing their requests specifically to him. Its would be much easier to go to the library and ask for all the books checked out by a named individual relating to poison. Noone else is getting hurt or being examined. They could surely ask this book store for all books known to have been bought by the individual in this case relating to drug manufacturing. However where the purchase is anonymous, like it probably was here, aka postal money order, cash etc, they can't do so without treading on everyone's rights. There is a big difference between someone who is a named defendant in a criminal case giving up his rights to the state to solve a crime and blanket searching of everyone who has read a certain book.
45 posted on 04/08/2002 4:01:19 PM PDT by foto
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To: TLBSHOW
Thanks for the heads up.

I was certain it would go the other way.

46 posted on 04/08/2002 4:06:01 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: spqrzilla9
...............HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
47 posted on 04/08/2002 5:12:06 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: freeeee
They found the books - why not just look for fingerprints on the pages?

Police found no fingerprints on the books and obtained a search warrant to find out who ordered them.

48 posted on 04/08/2002 5:26:02 PM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: Crusader21stCentury
I just happened to have read this last night:

You Are What You Read?

49 posted on 04/08/2002 5:29:35 PM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
The Tattered Cover --- my mostest favorite book store in the whole wide world!!!!!!

Everytime I'm in Denver, I have to visit that fantabulous store. I envy all of you in that area.

50 posted on 04/08/2002 6:09:40 PM PDT by Exit148
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To: spqrzilla9
The police are trying to use the book as evidence of who was part of the operation to build a meth lab.

So they claim, but as the Court correctly pointed out, the police had other means to establish who operated the meth lab. More than anything, the police were interested in establishing who resided in the bedroom where the lab was found. Funny thing though, they never tested anything in the bedroom for fingerprints except for the lab equipment and the books. They never interviewed anyone who might have been able to tell them whose bedroom it was. They never collected or analyzed any DNA or other forensic evidence that may have been in the bedroom. Claiming that the book's purchaser was information necessary to establish occupancy of the bedroom is laughable, to say the least.

They also wanted to establish intent to manufacture, which is almost absurd. The lab equipment, the meth, and the "how-to" books at scene--regardless of who purchased them--were more than sufficient to prove intent.

51 posted on 04/08/2002 6:31:08 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: StriperSniper
Thanks for the link, for a moment I thought I wasn't getting my point out. The only time a book should be used as evidence in a criminal trial is if it was the "blunt object" that caused the death.
52 posted on 04/08/2002 6:35:08 PM PDT by Crusader21stCentury
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To: foto
There is a big difference between someone who is a named defendant in a criminal case giving up his rights to the state to solve a crime and blanket searching of everyone who has read a certain book.

True, but in this case the police were not "blanket searching" for everyone who bought these two books. They were looking for information related to one specific invoice number, plus the 30-day purchasing history of the suspect to whom the "Tattered Cover" package was addressed (the lower court had already nixed the 30-day history search, so the only thing at issue now is the one particular invoice).

53 posted on 04/08/2002 6:57:03 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: StriperSniper
Police found no fingerprints on the books and obtained a search warrant to find out who ordered them.

Interesting tidbit, that. The book had never actually been read. The police department's own fingerprint expert had determined that only the covers of the books had ever been handled.

54 posted on 04/08/2002 7:15:02 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: spqrzilla9
The thing is...

The book wasn't part of the crime scene, it just happened to be near it.

Are you really a government lackey, or just want us to think you are?
55 posted on 04/08/2002 7:18:19 PM PDT by Maelstrom
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
Shazam! Eureka! Good goobelie goo! The perfect place to store personal/private medical records! Let the a-holes go fish somewhere else! Plus the stores can make a ton of $ storing records. So glad I had this brainstorm. Pat me on the head, Monica!
56 posted on 04/08/2002 8:48:35 PM PDT by Waco
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To: Sandy
They also wanted to establish intent to manufacture, which is almost absurd. The lab equipment, the meth, and the "how-to" books at scene--regardless of who purchased them--were more than sufficient to prove intent.

Not until you identify who bought them. Seems you caught yourself up and established my point.

57 posted on 04/08/2002 9:44:14 PM PDT by spqrzilla9
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To: Maelstrom
Are you really a government lackey, or just want us to think you are?

If you have nothing thoughtful to contribute, you may just indicate so.

58 posted on 04/08/2002 9:44:56 PM PDT by spqrzilla9
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To: spqrzilla9;Waco;Maelstrom;sandy;Atomic_Punk
I think the reason this seems to be a somewhat hot topic is that if there is one thing we have learned over the years it is that if we give an inch they take a yard. Let them ticket you if your pulled over for something without a seat belt and in a few years they will pull you over if you don't have one on, Let them seize a car and property in one situation, and soon it will be any crime, and let them start getting information on what we read if we break the law and they will soon want to know what we read all the time to see if we might break the law.

As I mentioned in another thread where they want to drug test entire schools soon they will want a drug test when you get a license, or yearly drug testing. Then maybe video cameras on every street corner, then in every house. Look at it as a series of pegs in a board going from top to bottom, absolute freedom at bottom, none at top. As a society of rules we agree not to start at the bottom. Each time a peg is moved up though, we slowly realize it will never move down. Like the time change the military set up years ago to confuse the enemy, some things just stay and never go away once we have them (ie sacred cow principle).

With each new law, each new case that 'we the people' lose those pegs move up. They are then used in other cases - saying, look they did it over there and the judge said ok, so you have to as well.

Speaking on strictly legal terms it may not sound like a bad idea or one that goes against our percieved notion of what the constitution says. But in the overall scheme of things these cases act slowly like rain, eroding the rock upon which we feel the country was founded. Much like christianity has been through - give in a little here, a little there, and soon you have a whole new faith with the same name.

It is our ability to stand by something which even if it at times has negative effects (like someone getting away with a crime on a technicality) that helps us in keeping our country free and great. Sure the 2nd amendment could allow people who are idiots to own guns and they may accidentally shoot themselves or use it in a crime. But we accept that, it is a tradeoff. We will never get to a point where there are no tradeoffs. The problem we have nowadays is that liberals think we can get to a point where everything is perfect - if we can just control everyone.

Funny thing though, the same god I have often heard people rant about - he watches you all the time, he judges your actions, punishes you, etc and so on - is what the liberals are pushing to become. Except they will be the ones watching us and making sure we all work together for what they 'believe' is best.

It would be interesting if they would re-write the 1st amendment and replace the word 'religion' with 'belief system'....

59 posted on 04/08/2002 10:53:08 PM PDT by chance33_98
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To: spqrzilla9
There is no "right" to purchase books anonymously. And there isn't a "right" to hide whether or not you bought a particular book when that book is linked to a criminal act, as is the case here.

Did "Publius" have the right to publish the Federalist Papers anonymously, and did buyers have the right to read it anonymously?

60 posted on 04/08/2002 11:18:53 PM PDT by supercat
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