'My God What Have We Done'

Reuters ^ | Mar 28 2002

[2Trievers]

The Enola Gay co-pilot's log book recording the horror of having just dropped the first atomic bomb in war was the most chilling item on auction in a sale of U.S. historical documents.

The winning bid for Capt. Robert Lewis's log chronicling the "Little Boy" mission that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, was $350,000.

"It is a uniquely important document," dealer Seth Kaller said about the Enola Gay log. "It's one of the greatest moments, but one of the most terrible, of the century. It's a terribly sad record. I think that affects the desire to own it."

[TPartyType]

Thanks. I'll have to read Rising Sun some day.

[TPartyType]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought your #60 advocated demoralizing the enemy by taking the war to civilian population centers.

[AndrewC]

Believe me, I was engaging in no revisionism.

Oh, no. I was not calling you a revisionist, those are others. I was using you to expand on the civilian casualty/innocent aspect. Think how horrific the mainland battle would have been had it occurred.

[BluesDuke]

I was using you to expand on the civilian casualty/innocent aspect.

Ah, I understand. :)

Think how horrific the mainland battle would have been had it occurred.

"Horrific," somehow, seems far too polite a term for what would in reality have transpired in such an instance. I dare suggest that, in comparison, the Battle of the Bulge would have resembled a WWF tag team farce.

[Jeff Chandler]

The use of atomic weapons was no more immoral than the bombing of Tokyo (or Dresden). They all involved the bombing of civilian areas. In Europe, the Nazis violated the principal of not targeting civilian populations through the bombing of London. Dresden was bombed to teach the Germans a lesson. The lesson was: DON'T DO THAT AGAIN!

[TPartyType]

Why was that the lesson? Because it was supposed to be out of bounds.

[nopardons]

WE WON WW II ! Next ?

[TPartyType]

No brainer. Waste the target. Still, it's apples and oranges. I don't think war should be pretty. Quit your straw man argument long enough to think about the comparative ethics here.

Of course my "silly code of war" is outdated. What the hell do you think conservatives base half their arguments on? :-)

[TPartyType]

Yup. We won WWII. But it looks like WWIII is getting underway . . . (over on the other thread there).

[Jeff Chandler]

Why was that the lesson? Because it was supposed to be out of bounds.

It's called putting the shoe on the other foot. I don't mean to be insulting, but you really do need to study the history of warfare. Even as brutal as this all seems, it's exponentially more restrained and civilized than in times past. In wartime, certain decisions have to be made; certain actions have to be taken. It's not a game, it's life and death, and, while, of course we have to conduct ourselves in as civilized and compassionate a manner as possible, sometimes we have to be ruthless and brutal.

By the way, Japan and Germany haven't had any imperial ambitions in quite some time, have they?

[Texas Gal]

When I was too little to be impressed with such things, my dad used to show us kids his huge leg scar where the Japanese in WWII shot him in the leg.  If you take the trouble to decode the following, be warned.  It's kind of dumb and horribly indelicate.  I only warn you so you don't come whining to me if you don't like it.

Knock knock.  Who's there?  Naga.  Naga who?  Nagasaki.  Knock knock.  Who's there?  Nauga.  Nauga who?  Naugahyde before those crazy Americans nuke us again.

[budwiesest]

Should we have engaged them in the field of battle and in caves, or taken them out, along with their supporters and civilians?

We are doing them a favor by keeping this on the ground and suffering casualties at all. Remember, we're the baddest bastards on the block and survival is the name of the game. We decide how it's gonna play out, not them.

They realize this, and their attempts at infiltrating our airlines with a handfull of Ramboes is being dealt with appropriately. One suitcase Nuke over Atlanta, and all bets are off. We'll own the Middle East. Their oil will become our oil. Period.

Israel knows this, that's why they haven't broken rank and taken the Palies on one to one, in spite of the recent atrocities that now seem a daily occurance.

Home of the Brave, Land of the Free sure, but more importantly, the Mother of your Worst Nightmare-- should anyone decide to threaten our survival.

Guaranteed: the next time we lob a nuke will be in response to such an attack upon us that it will make 9/11 pale in comparison. Survival is all about survival, nothing else. It's Nature's way.

[TPartyType]

Your #111 is a perfect statement of the "State of Nature." That's exactly what civilization is supposed to save us from. One of the prime missions of conservatives, as I understand conservatism, is to keep life from degenerating to being all about survival. In a civilized world, even battle is conducted with honor and restraint.

Of course I understand that that's not the way modern warfare is conducted. But at some point conservatives have to be a voice for restraint and civility. Otherwise the spiral downward has no end.

[TPartyType]

er, 114 . . .

[antidemocommie]

Those men, like the founders of Texas, would be charged with crimes against humanity if they were of this era.

[budwiesest]

But at some point conservatives have to be a voice for restraint and civility. Otherwise the spiral downward has no end.

Restraint and civility have their place and will be expressed when the natural order is intact. Not unlike the Grizzly that has reached the pinnacle of the food chain, so must we be given 'room' to roam. No downward spiral will occur when a pecking order is established, but may, if those at the top foolishly fail to protect their territory.

Civility is based upon accepted rules of conduct but will never act as a shield against agression that is bent upon destruction of another. It is a luxury that exists at the pleasure of a respected order that results from an extablishment of power relationships.

I would agree that conservatives are perhaps the first to commit to a civil existence, as liberals prefer to ignore the presence of a 'Lion King' and attempt- via collectivism- to override the entire notion of any King of the Jungle.

[Hildy]

OK, it will take me a while to digitize it. I will try to scan it. If not, I'll type it in. Give me a few weeks.

[bonesmccoy]

No, you killed 100,000+ civilians who were directly related to the Japanese in America, effectively killing off any hope of immigration occuring between the US and Japan. On the other hand, you flooded the US with people from Eastern block nations and Russia.

Thanks to FDR, we've had socialism infest our national psyche.