More Police Powers: Congressperson, "Just Screw em"

Washington Post ^ | March 25, 2002 | By Matthew Mosk

[survivalforum.com]

Washington Post - Maryland's House of Delegates is preparing to pass anti-terrorism legislation today that would dramatically expand the ability of police to tap phones and eavesdrop on the e-mail and Internet activity of suspected criminals -- part of a deluge of terror-busting measures under consideration in nearly every state capital.

The Maryland bill, like those in dozens of other states, has inspired a heated clash between civil libertarians and those who believe that some rights must be compromised to prevent another attack on U.S. soil.

[survivalforum.com]

Good day to you:

My statement is not a personal attack on you. So please don't take it that way. I think it is great that we can all express our opinions and have lively discussions on these matters.

However, "take it with a grain of salt" is just is sad as the statement made by these ignorant, arrogant, proud, boastful and wicked people.

We should take these things VERY seriously. The actions and events taking place are not a joke and could spell life or death for some people in the future.

If this were isolated I would lean more towards agreeing with your statement.

However, look around! This stuff is occurring EVERY day. Homeland security doesn't answer to congress...Cheney not turning over docs, massive consolidation of federal agencies due to the terrorist incident, which by the way lines right up with excecutive order 12148, FEMA controlling federal agencies.

When are the people going to wake up and repent of their worshiping of idols?

And our proud, boasful and wicked attitudes and actions?

Woe unto us, friend.

[Reagan Man]

You've got some good ideas.

Portions of HR 1885 improves border security. I'd like to see the military used more often to assist border control agencies. But its impossible to deport all illegal aliens. AG Ashcroft and the DoJ are profiling middle eastern men. They may boit call it profiling, but thats what it is. I believe in many local communities, law enforcement officials are encouraging Americans to protect themselves. All local civil defense entities are on alert. In the last general election, exit polls showed that about half of all American's admitted to owning a firearm. I'm sure that figure is much higher in reality.

[Reagan Man]

And BTW, the term is "carte blanche".

Thanks Redbob.

[survivalforum.com]

Want a fix?

How about not letting the terrorist into the country in the first place???

It wasn't the average American line worker that flew planes into the buildings!

However, these laws are directed to AMERICANS!

Are you aware that over 35,000 visas were granted to people from countries on the US terrorist list AFTER September 11th??? And that was as of, Feb 1, 2002!

Its problably up to 50,000 now.

Instead of looking at symptoms. Why are people so dumbed down that they no longer know how to look at the ROOT of the problem?

[Wurlitzer]

"Even when hitlary was campaigning here years ago even she was to the "right" of the scumbag commies ruling this state."

Nah! She is just so far to the left that she has crossed over the boundery and looks like she is standing on the right.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Just another typical political day in MD. Rulers rule and peasants bow.

Politicians and one world socialist prefer unarmed, uneducated peasants. Add millions upon millions of uneducated illegal aliens, and it expedites this agenda quite nicely.

[freeeee]

America has foreign policy interests in the world.

On more than one occasion, America has involved itself in places where it has no legitimate business. I can offhand, think of numerous actions we have taken that would amount to a declaration of war if they were done to us. Like it or not, this makes us enemies. Bitter, obsessed, determined enemies. In times past, these enemies would have met us head-on in the battlefield, but our current superpower status keeps them from doing so. Instead, they engage in guerilla warfare and hit us where we are weak - these are the causes of terrorism.

I don't say this because of any hatred of America, which is often the charge when pointing this out. I love our country. I say it because only we can correct our own mistakes - mistakes that if gone uncorrected cause damage to our nation. I believe our foreign policy is inconsistant with the principles of a republic, and is causing ours great harm.

Were where you on 9-11?

Home.

Have you forgotten the terrorists struck American's, on American soil.

No, I remember it very well.

Closing the borders and isolating America from the world isn't the way to go.

Its always the all-or-nothing theory from the global adventurers. This either-or fallacy may be described as follows: Either we lock ourselves in our room and isolate ourselves from every living thing on the planet, or we must engage in global adventurism, chronically misusing the military in babysitting, meals on wheels, nationbuilding, peacekeeping, world's policeman roles, involvement in regional power struggles and civil wars, and so on.

The reality aside from the either-or fallacy is that we can engage the world in voluntary trade founded on good will, and refrain from military involvement where we don't belong.

We've gone so far down the wrong road, that this may seem impossible. It isn't. It has been done before, and other countries do it now. It's just very different from what you're used to.

[Reagan Man]

No, you wouldn't. The last time you made this statement, several people gave you a better plan (reestablishment of an armed citizenry), and you ignored it.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I believe every American has the right to keep and bare arms. I fully support second amendment rights. I own firearms! So back off, bucko!

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

SF, That's Dana Lee. A legislative {house of Delegates} lawyer from the People's Republic of Montgomery County. I hope HIS is the first house used as a test case. "Screw them!". Peace and love, George.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

This is going on in all the states now.

We (Washington) only passed on law and it was in regards to the Public Disclosure Laws that could have been used to compromise info from the feds that was given to the state.

Seattle Times article on same subject.

The article linked above outlines how the laws being proposed in Washington and passed in Maryland were described by the feds as "superfluous".

Here are some excepts for those who don't wish to read the whole article. I apologize to the person who started this thread as I'm not trying to hijack it, but this is not just a Maryland issue and the article has a few comments that add some light to the Maryland article.

Most bills on terrorism get trapped in impasse.(Washington state)

In the torrent of emotion after Sept. 11, a package of anti-terrorism bills seemed sure to find swift passage through the state Legislature. But as the session ended last week, only a single compromise bill passed, leaving the state with no substantive new laws against terrorism.

Of the three major anti-terrorism measures, the only bill that passed was one to tweak the state's public-records laws, prohibiting public access to sensitive information given the state by federal agencies. It also exempts from disclosure assessments of the vulnerability of state infrastructure. "snip"

Virtually every other terrorism-related measure, ranging from expanded state wiretapping powers to a new crime of terrorism, fell victim to a showdown between the House and Senate and two key lawmakers: Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw Democrat, 19-year law-enforcement veteran and chairman of the Select Committee on Community Security, and Sen. Adam Kline, a Seattle attorney, civil libertarian and Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Siding with Hurst were Gov. Gary Locke and Attorney General Christine Gregoire, who backed a Hurst-sponsored package of bills that would have created a new category of criminal law: terrorism in the first- and second-degree."snip"

Kline pushed his own measure, which would have increased the sentences for crimes already on the books if they were committed during a terrorist act. His bill excluded wiretapping provisions, which were strongly opposed by the American Civil Liberties Union, where Kline sometimes works as a cooperating attorney.

The disagreement escalated into a political war in the final hours of the session last week, with Kline at one point getting called into the woodshed by the governor and Hurst walking away from a compromise.

From the perspective of federal law-enforcement agencies, most of the proposed anti-terrorism measures the Legislature was considering were superfluous, with the exception of the public-records law. "snip"

As you can see this state legislature is in the hands of the Democrats and they have ideological splits that are keeping our rights from being totally trampled on.

That includes the fact that even though the speaker of the house TOTALLY owns the agenda in the house and runs it like a "dictator" (quoted from a retiring Democrat legislator), not one gun ban/registration/licensing/safe storage/one gun per month/etc. bill was passed out of committee because the Eastern Washington Dems. are rural and if they ever voted for that the Eastern side of the state would flip totally Republican.

[Reagan Man]

If every home becomes a jail...

I don't agree with your conclusions. You may not support precautionary measures by law enforcement agencies, but right now, they're necessary. This tendency on the part of some individuals toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness, serves no good purpose. A well informed, well armed and vigilant society is preferable to a state of paranoia.

[poet]

Yeah right! Law enforcement personnal are better and more honest and dependable than the rest of us. Remember Waco, Ruby Ridge, Ramparts police station in Los Angeles and the other actions of black booted and black suited "protectors" of our liberty. When I see these guys, I picture nazis at their finest or don't you think the method of the kidnapping of Elian in Florida wasn't a gestapo act? Why would you trust people that you don't even know? These people are appointed by politicians who don't care about us except when it comes time for us to vote.

All pols care about ( by and large) is becoming wealthy off the public trough and getting re-elected.

[Reagan Man]

Hey, you asked for a plan.

Okay. You've made your point. While starting WWIII, will definitely kill most terrorists in the world, it will also destroy the world, as we know it. Slightly irrational.

[OWK]

There still exist a vigilant few
Maryland, my Maryland!
They know the price that's coming due
Maryland, my Maryland!
And in that day those men will stand
To face the beast, with sword in hand,
And drive the tyrants from the land.
Maryland, my Maryland!

[Reagan Man]

How about not letting the terrorist into the country in the first place???

I believe that is what the governemnt is attempting to accomplish with the Patriot Act and HR 1885. They may not be meeting your schedule, or mine, for that matter, but they're working on improving protection and defense measures. This is no small project. Frankly, even for that huge behemoth, called the federal bureaucracy, this is a huge undertaking. Remember, these efforts will never have a 100% success rate. Nothing in life is perfect.

[hoosierham]

Did our fathers and grandfathers have to toss the Bill of Rights to fight the Germans ?

Life will not be safer in a dictatorship, you will constantly need to be :on the good side: of the corrupt officials.

and the more power they have, the more corrupt they will be.

Haven;t Americans yet learned from Prohibition, The War on Drugs,Waco,etc ?

Shall we declare defeat and throw away 300 years of Americans striving for freedom because of one terrorist attack ?

As bad as the World Trade Center death toll was, it was still only twice the Titanic, and people did not stop traveling on ships. Ten times as many people will die in traffic collisions EACH year as died in the WTC, shall we stop using cars,buses, trains,and trucks ?

Modern Americans are a whiny bunch of wimps compared to the old-timers who picked themselves back up from the dust and prevailed against adversity.

That legislator should be charged with violating his oath of office and barred from public office.

[Reagan Man]

>>>On more than one occasion, America has involved itself in places where it has no legitimate business.<<<

I agree with you, but we can't close America to the world.

>>>Its always the all-or-nothing theory from the global adventurers.<<<

I'm no absolutist and neither is President Bush. I look at each and every situation as a separate circumstance with its own unique set of facts.

>>>The reality... is that we can engage the world in voluntary trade founded on good will, and refrain from military involvement where we don't belong.<<<

That's a very naive stance to take. Almost a pacifist position. I don't ever see that happening. We would be signing our own death warrant.

[concerned about politics]

law enforcement officials are encouraging Americans to protect themselves

I agree. Politics is certainly strange, but I think them 'not condeming' self protection is their way of advocating it. Imagine the uproar if they said "arm yourselves." Instead, they send out warnings, you figure it out yourselves.

We were major ready for Y2K not knowing what would happen ( and read a lot about the great depression). It taught us to always be prepared. We are.

"A wise man sees trouble comming and prepares for it. If it does not arrive, he is much better off because of it."

[freeeee]

That's a very naive stance to take. Almost a pacifist position.

It is far from pacifist, when combined with a strong policy of self-defense. Under this policy, we would engage in peaceful relations of trade and culture with foreign nations. Here's the catch: If we are attacked, we literally unleash Hell upon the aggressor. We will apply a ruthless and single-minded approach to hunt down and destroy aggressors. Aggressive nations would be conquered or destroyed. A few poignant examples will teach this lesson without question to the rest of the world: "Don't Tread on US".

This foreign policy approach gives every reason for foreigners to trade peacefully with us if they like us, and give little reason to attack us. I believe it is not only wise but also very practical.

I don't ever see that happening.

I don't either. The wealth and power that come with Empire are far too irresistible.

We would be signing our own death warrant.

This policy of foreign adventurism comes with plenty of death and destruction of its own, don't you think?

[SSN558]

Freedom and the American way of life is under attack, but there is a twist. We have met the enemy and the enemy is us, Osama Bin Laden was just a catalyst.