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Mountain Division: Why the U.S. can't match the British at high altitudes.
The American Prospect ^ | Mar 21, 2002 | Jason Vest

Posted on 03/21/2002 11:59:34 AM PST by My Identity

In a recent Slate "Today's Papers" column, Eric Umansky drew attention to a Wall Street Journal item reporting the impending arrival of 1700 British troops in Afghanistan at the U.S. military's request. Quite rightly, Umansky was most interested not in what was included in the dispatch, but what wasn't. "Given that the US presumably still has plenty of troops available," he wrote, "it would have been helpful if the paper had asked why the US requested the deployment."

While I can't report the official American rationale -- the Pentagon doesn't seem to be in any hurry to return my calls -- there are some points worth examining in order to answer Umansky's very worthy question. The tentative summation? The United States asked for the British because the United States doesn't have adequately-trained forces (or, at least, ones ready to go), and because the bulk of the forces we used in Operation Anaconda weren't the right ones in the first place. And this highlights some real shortcomings in the U.S. Army.

That's not to dis the troops who fought at Shahikot in recent weeks; they got their orders and did their duty. But before we get to the British, let's take a closer look at who saw action around Gardez in recent weeks. While some Special Forces were involved, the majority of U.S. combatants were troops from the 101st Airborne's 3rd Brigade -- which hasn't seen a lot of action since the Gulf War -- and the 10th Mountain Division. In a previously posted Prospect article, I characterized the 10th Mountain Division as "ostensibly" a specialist unit in mountain operations. Space didn't permit me to expound on this further, so I'll do it here: Despite the presence of the word "mountain," the 10th does not, in fact, have any particular expertise in mountain warfare.

It is true that at its Fort Drum home in upstate New York, there are two "Mountain Leader Combat" courses open to individuals: one that runs two weeks with a four-day field training exercise, another that goes ten days focusing on weaponry and clearing rooms. But when the 10th was reactivated in 1985, it was not as a mountaineering or altitude combat force, but as a general light-infantry unit. Many in the Army believe the "mountain" designator was, in fact, an attempt to endear the service to then-Senator Bob Dole, who'd served in the original 10th during World War II. While elements of the 10th have seen combat most notably (and tragically) in support of the 1993 Task Force Ranger retreat in Mogadishu, others have spent most of the past decade in support or peacekeeping missions in Kuwait, Iraq, Haiti and Bosnia.

(Aside to loyal Chicago Tribune readers: The entire 10th Mountain Division was not "in the gulf [war]" and has not "had substantial training in this kind of mountainous terrain," as Lexington Institute analyst Daniel Goure was quoted as saying in the October 4, 2001 edition of the paper. Only the 548th Corps Support Battalion, which specializes in supply and services, went.)

It does bear mentioning that the U.S. Army maintains an advanced mountain warfare school in Jerico, Vermont, where some individual members of the 10th Mountain have trained. And that it's not an easy course. There are, however, some important caveats to bear in mind. In my previous Prospect piece, I mentioned a recent article in the Army-published Military Review, co-authored by retired Lieutenant Colonel Lester Grau and Lieutenant Colonel Hernan Vazquez, titled "Ground Combat at High Altitude," which made some serious systemic criticisms of the U.S. Army's mountain warfare training regimen. Aside from the fact that the Army doesn't really train for high-altitude combat (maximum elevation at Jerico is 4,393 feet; high-altitude combat is defined as over 10,000 feet, and Anaconda took place at elevations ranging from 8,500 to 13,000 feet), it's noteworthy that the mountain school does not train entire units, but only individuals -- 30 soldiers in two classes, twice a year, for two weeks.

Or, to put it another way, it's not exactly reflective of Grau and Vazquez's point that in mountain warfare, "experience counts and is not gained in two months of training," or their admonition -- based on the standards of other nations' mountain warfare units -- that a fundamental of mountain combat is giving soldiers at least 10 days to acclimate -- and that "an acclimated soldier is not an experienced mountaineer."

Now let's take a closer look at the composition, experience, and training regimen of the key players in the British force specifically requested by the U.S. military: the 650-man 45 Royal Marine Commando, also known as the Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre. True specialists in high-mountain and extreme cold weather warfare since the 1970's, the unit was training late last year in the mountains and deserts of Oman, which are almost identical to the topography of Afghanistan. A key force in the Falklands War of 1982 (it famously marched 80 miles in a day and won a key battle), the group has also devised some effective and innovative tactics during combat tours in Northern Ireland and the high ranges of Northern Iraq and Kosovo, and, for versatility's sake, jungle work in Belize and Sierra Leone.

But what really sets it apart from the American 101st and 10th is how it's structured and how it trains -- much closer to the standard espoused by Grau and Vazquez. Passing basic training isn't easy: A recruit has to traverse 30 miles of Dartmoor crags with full back gear in seven hours. And the group trains together, eschewing the individual approach favored by their U.S. counterparts. What's more, they're serious about their training. Every year, the 45 Commando spends 10 weeks at the Royal Marine Arctic Warfare Course, 215 miles inside the arctic circle at Elvigardsmond, Norway, enduring some of the most deadly conditions a soldier can face. According to U.S. Army Major Donald Vandergriff, a scholar who's made a detailed study of various military personnel systems, part of what enables the 45 Commando to survive its annual Norway stint and do well in combat is that its organizational principles simply aren't the U.S. Army's.

"They train the entire unit, not individuals; their NCOs [non-commissioned officers] are empowered or trusted to do more, and a battalion or brigade has half the officers of a similar U..S unit, which is significant, because officers and NCOs acquire more responsibility earlier in their careers, which translates into more experience at their profession," Vandergriff said. "And their officer selection and promotion systems are different; the criteria is tougher and more strenuous than ours. And they also use an 'up and stay' promotion system versus our 'up and out' system, which allows competent officers to stay longer at a place where they perform well."

But why stop and contemplate any of this? Seemingly mundane, unsexy matters like training and personnel just don't seem like that big of a deal, especially when General Tommy Franks has deemed Operation Anaconda an "unqualified and absolute success." Even though some of his Afghan allies beg to differ, and even though no one is entirely sure just how many of the enemy were a) there in the first place, b) slipped through the airtight cordon that was Anaconda to reinforce those already there, and/or c) escaped through the airtight cordon.

But, then, it's probably asking too much of anyone to dwell on any of these particulars. After all, days before "success" was declared, The New Republic's Lawrence Kaplan had all but declared the conflict triumphantly over, declaring the real story was how the Army units "battling al-Qaeda fighters at close range and Army commanders improvising as they went along" all worked in the service of "banishing" Vietnam and emboldening casualty-averse commanders to field Army troops and fight. So what if aspects of Anaconda might highlight systemic failures in readiness and doctrine that are yet to be corrected? Apparently it's more pleasant to be enveloped in the fog of war.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: british; mountaindivision; operationanaconda; us
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To: cascademountaineer
Our guys are giving it their all. No matter what kind of questions any of us may have of this engagement, our men (and women) are going 110%

True, but A's for effort don't win battles.

However, some armies in the world take unit training for extreme environments a lot more seriously. Consequently their '110%' goes farther than ours.

Now don't tell me I'm 'anti-military' or something, I've been in light infantry units on active duty and I'm still in the Guard.

If we spent as much time actually training as we do on 'PowerPoint' briefings and paperwork, we'd be as good in challenging environments as the Brits.

21 posted on 03/21/2002 12:29:39 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: ventana
Yep,

My Dad was in the 10th in the 50's.

They trained high in the rockies near Leadville CO....about 10,000 feet.

The unit was originaly started to battle Nazi Alpine troops high in the Alps...

They distinguished themselve by fighting all the way up the center of Italy in WWII.

Here is a web site about the 10th.

22 posted on 03/21/2002 12:29:55 PM PST by Ultrconservative
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To: kd5cts
I concur with your analysis.

Rather than try to impugn my motives, I think we would all benefit from your analysis of where the article is off the mark.
23 posted on 03/21/2002 12:29:58 PM PST by My Identity
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To: cascademountaineer
May I sir?

Absolutely. I think most flatlanders have no concept of how the body reacts to oxygen deprivation, let alone altitude sickness.
24 posted on 03/21/2002 12:33:28 PM PST by My Identity
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To: ventana
The 10th Mountain Div. used to train at Camp Hale, Colorado near Leadville in WWII
25 posted on 03/21/2002 12:33:38 PM PST by Perspicac
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To: My Identity
sure, there are small British special forces that are better trained in particular areas than US Army divisions as a whole ... but posting this anti-American tripe belies any 'noble' intent.
26 posted on 03/21/2002 12:34:37 PM PST by fnord
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To: Shermy
Exactly.........send in the gurkhas! I read some incredible stories about these guys. In Korea they used to sneak up on the N Koreans at night.....slit the throat of every fourth man.....just for terror effect. Leave the rest to tell the tale.
27 posted on 03/21/2002 12:34:53 PM PST by BlackJack
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To: AppyPappy
We need to move the 10th to the Rockies.

Make that back to the Rockies. The 10th division hut system is still here from their WWII days.

Regardless of the accuracy of this particular article, Anaconda definitely did highlight the need for an actual mountain division. Nothing better than practicing at altitude, in the cold.

28 posted on 03/21/2002 12:35:01 PM PST by r9etb
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To: My Identity
few enemy bodies despite "hundreds killed",

I wasn't commenting on your motives, I was agreeing that the above statement is much like a meadow muffin. Bodies are not normally recovered after a direct hit by a 2000 lb bomb. Neither are they recovered from a cave that has been collapsed.

/john

29 posted on 03/21/2002 12:37:26 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: chookter
There was alot that contributed to this. The Pashtun/Tajik lines broke early leaving no rear gaurd. That was unacounted for. That should not, nor need not be a criticism, of any field exercise. And anyone who has spent enough time in the field should know that.
30 posted on 03/21/2002 12:39:43 PM PST by cascademountaineer
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To: fnord
posting this anti-American tripe belies any 'noble' intent.

Please let us know how this "tripe" is off-the mark. I'm sure there are many lurkers that would benefit from your detailed analysis.
31 posted on 03/21/2002 12:41:23 PM PST by My Identity
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To: fnord
It's not "anti-Amerocan tripe". It may be from a liberal magazine, but inadequate training for the US Army has been a problem since the Spanish-American War (Stephen Ambrose's propaganda notwithstanding). If we don't openly acknowledge and rectify short-comings in training, doctrine or equipment, we needlessly send American soldiers to an early grave.
32 posted on 03/21/2002 12:41:56 PM PST by Seydlitz
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To: Straight Vermonter; My Identity
>I have mentioned on these boards before that the military had made no use of the troops that train at the Mountain Warfare School here. I thought that once we went into Afghanistan that these folks would be amongst the first called up. ...

(tin foil alert) One reason this war may be going the way it is, is because it is really not a war on terrorism...

For instance, if the US Establishment were dealing with an internal civil war, being played out by proxies abroad, and business struggles (along with symbolic strikes) domestically. Such a struggle might be between, say, the US globalist One World types battling against patriots loyal, first, to the Constitution...

In this view, various power blocs within the US Establishment would maintain control of, or the allegiance of, various elements within the already highly insular and compartmentalized US military.

The Establishment would then have to do a number of things carefully. Seemingly "appropriate" units may be excluded from one theater or another because the units could be controlled by the opposing power bloc. "International" forces may play unexpected roles -- NATO AWACS over the US, or British forces doing a little bit of everything, or French forces picking and choosing what they want to do...

It's difficult to imagine exactly what a civil war would look like in a Western country in the modern world. But since everyone would still need the citizenry to keep calm and keep working to pay for the struggle, it would be in everyone's interest to maintain a facade like the "war on terror." It seems a civil war would look a lot like what we're seeing these days...

Mark W.

33 posted on 03/21/2002 12:44:34 PM PST by MarkWar
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To: cascademountaineer
There was alot that contributed to this. The Pashtun/Tajik lines broke early leaving no rear gaurd. That was unacounted for. That should not, nor need not be a criticism, of any field exercise. And anyone who has spent enough time in the field should know that.

I'm not criticizing this operation in particular. I'm just saying that our army doesn't take mountain warfare as seriously as other armies.

If you'd like me to criticize this operation, I will: The Pashtun/Tajik forces broke early to save their asses when faced with 4 times the amount of enemies that the usual faulty Army Military Intelligence predicted. Other armies take MI a lot more seriously than we do as well....

34 posted on 03/21/2002 12:45:54 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: cascademountaineer;My Identity
I served in the 2d Marine Regiment. Trained for mountain warfare at Pickel Meadows,(Bridgeport, CA) at the Mountain Warfare Training Center (MWTC)...just surviving and moving at 12,000 ft (summer or winter) will kick your @ss, even if your in great shape. Experience means everything in that environment...not to mention a squared away logistics team...

The troops in country now I'm sure are putting forth their best efforts, and learning hard lessons. Maybe they'll truly earn the designation "Mountain" before this is done...

Go get'em ya doggies!!

35 posted on 03/21/2002 12:47:14 PM PST by g'nad
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To: kd5cts
I wasn't commenting on your motives...

Of course not, you were just agreeing with some who was...nice semantics.

Nevertheless, if there are reportedly over 800 enemy killed, one would think that there would be more than a couple dozen bodies found. All I have seen are reports commenting on the lack of bodies. And while your suggested explanations might hold up in some cases, it seems unlikely that they explain 95% of all deaths. Surely our guys on the ground and in the Apaches did more than kill a handful of them.
36 posted on 03/21/2002 12:51:22 PM PST by My Identity
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To: CasearianDaoist
The Amry brass, however, does not want the Corp to get anymore press, or so it would seem.

You mean the press that kept beating the drum about the Marines "going in first" to "secure" Camp Rhino? The same Camp Rhino that a couple hundred Army Rangers dropped into for a look-see ... a full month before the Marines hit shore? THAT press?

Don't get me wrong. I love those Marines. (My husband would have been one if they would have let him jump out of a perfectly good airplane every once in a while.) But it was kinda rough sitting back here listening for weeks about the Ooorahs going in first, when it was really the Hooahs all along. And let's not even get into the whole "botched mission" crap that the press put out.

Rangers Lead The Way!

37 posted on 03/21/2002 12:57:02 PM PST by rangermedicswife
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To: dennybabyboy-fitzy;new zealander
BUMP
38 posted on 03/21/2002 1:03:46 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: AppyPappy
The 4th is (was?) at Ft. Carson, Co.
39 posted on 03/21/2002 1:04:50 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: g'nad
BUMP
40 posted on 03/21/2002 1:05:48 PM PST by cascademountaineer
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