As Rabbis Face Facts, Bible Tales Are Wilting

N.Y. Times online ^ | March 9, 2002 | MICHAEL MASSING

[nickcarraway]

As Rabbis Face Facts, Bible Tales Are Wilting

With this title they don't even try to disguise their axe to grind.

[nickcarraway]

Where are the modern day Moses and Aaron who will bring plagues on the NYT?

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Except that modern biology has done no such thing. These Jews wish to be politically correct so strongly that they accept every shed of gay propoganda as truth.

True.

-

There is no gay gene...

True.

-

... the cause of homosexuality remains a mystery, especially as so many of them are bisexual.

First half is false, second half may be true. There is no mystery .

Human perversions of anatomical function(s) and the biological reproductive process is nothing mysterious.

Natural reproduction is mysterious, especially if you ever have children. Look into their eyes, watch them grow. Life itself is truly a miracle, the human perversions of it are not...

[Pistias]

Oh look, yet another will to power attack on the crumbling foundations of Judeao-Christian society. And from New York, no less. What a suprise.

[#3Fan]

Call it the 'deconstruction' of the bible but there is no doubt a lot of historical embellishment in all human history. One can well imagine that, had the American war of independance begun in 1776 B.C. instead of A.D. the story would have transmogrified considerably as it passed from generation to generation in a less than scientific era. George Washington might have been credited with 'walking' across the Delaware and his cherry tree chopping and silver dollar tossing be accepted as absolute truth rather than fanciful tales designed as parables of virtue. Jefferson, Madison and the rest could have easily come to be viewed as Saints, they have almost achieved that status in our own time, Sally Hemmings notwithstanding.

The problem with that theory is the bible clearly specifies each man's faults (except for Jesus of course, having been the perfect scarifice). David quasi-murdered Uriah, Solomon fell from grace due to his concubine's beliefs, Adam and Eve partook of falsity, Noah's drunken state on the day of Ham's sin, etc.

[LostTribe]

> ...when the Egyptians or their histories speak evil of the Jews,

This article, translated from the original is a classic case of the translator repeatedly changing a meaning which reinforces an error. There were no Jews in Egypt during the time apparently being referenced (prior to the Exodus) there were only Israelites. While all Jews were Israelites, most Israelites were not Jews.

The Israelites were gone from Egypt many centuries before the Kingdoms split and the NORTHERN Kingdom was taken into captivity by the Assyrians. The Jews came from the Southern Kingdom. It makes you wonder what else is being mistranslated and referenced as history.

[LostTribe]

>...Or Jews as God's Choosen People.

Actually, the Israelites as a whole received that promise, not just the Jews. Click on my Profile to see the difference.

[LostTribe]

>Archeologists also contended there was no written language at the time the Torah was was alledged to be written... then they found Hamarabi's code. They also said there was no name Abraham during the time of Abaham's life... then they found and inscription on stone with the name Abram pre-dating the Biblical Abraham. They used to say there was no city of Ur until they found evidence and changed their mind. They said all the Gospels were written in the second or third century, until they found manuscripts dating from the first century. I'm certain the myth of no Jericho will be debunked with time.

Right on target! Deserves to be posted again.

[muir_redwoods]

I'm not religious at all so maybe I don't have any standing in this question. Honestly I am only a bit amused by people who claim the the Bible is without error since internal inconsistencies are so plentiful but, as indicated my opinion may not matter. It does seem to me that as a standard of ethical education the Bible has done a fine job. The ten commandments and the additional two that Jesus offered certainly seem to me to be an excellent foundation for an ethical society

Suggeting that the Bible is somehow less valuable because its tales are only myth is to miss the point of an ethical grounding.

[webstersII]

It was this name that stopped me and convinced me to post this article. I read "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" at a low point in my life and found it comforting. Theodicy is the major reason for my agnosticism and I fail to see why questioning mystical origins is indicative of an agenda.

I read it, also. His grief caused him to become basically an agnostic. He didn't solve the issue at all or add anything to it, he merely tried to put agnosticism in a more favorable light.

[Joshua]

"More likely, Mr. Wexler says, it arose in Mesopotamia, the influence of which is most apparent in the story of the Flood, which probably grew out of the periodic overflowing of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The story of Noah, Mr. Wexler adds, was probably borrowed from the Mesopotamian epic Gilgamesh. "

How can anyone argue with the explanation of the facts Mr. Wexler gives us here?
I don't know about the rest of you but it's going to be hard for me to refute these truths, probably.

[VOA]

And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital,
was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide
a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

I suppose that King David's indirect murder of one of his soldiers...so that he could
have sex with the man's wife, his abysmal record as a parent, and (IIRC) being denied
the honor of completing the temple in Jerusalem was also a way of embellishing his history.
"Yeah...right...that's the ticket."

(I may have be a bit off in the facts there as I'm not a Biblical scholar. I invite
correction by the more knowledgeable.)

What is it with these PhDs? If the characters in the Bible had actually commissioned the
work, they sure got cheated. Because, despite many heroic qualities...many
have some really big character faults.

Oops, there I go. Being judgemental. Guess that disqualifies me from commenting
on this topic.

[Dumb_Ox]

It makes you wonder what else is being mistranslated and referenced as history.

It makes me wonder what kind of pedant continually pounds on his favorite pedantry.

[mustapha mond]

You would think that with all the earthly power the God haters have they would have won this argument already. More evidence that they are wrong. The question is : why do they hate the idea of God so much? --MM

[VOA]

"Today, they are very sophisticated and well read about psychology, literature and history,
but they are locked in a childish version of the Bible."

Dear Rabbi Kushner,
I guess you must be thankful that one A. Hitler and his merry band weren't
slavish followers of that "childish version" of the Bible.
I'm sure you would appreciate their sophisticated view on those old fables.

I'm beginning to think that a fair proportion of well-educated religious leaders
have lost their common sense.
If not their minds.

[eddie willers]

We seem to be of a like mind.

[x]

This is reminiscent of the NY Times and New Statesman articles posted here in recent months about research into the Koran, which were better received. There is also a more polemical article about biblical archaealogy in the March Harper's monthly.

All the canons of historical truth and methods of research that we have now weren't in place millenia ago when the Bible and Koran were written, so it's not surprising that those texts may not conform entirely to modern scientific or scholarly standards of what is proven or true. It's probably a mistake to think that any religion is more vulnerable than others to such criticism.

Just as the practice of most modern American religions have more in common with each other than with what such faiths were centuries or millennia ago, so ancient Near East religions probably had more in common with each other than we once realized. There were more connections and cross-currents and shared influences than subsequent generations would admit.

This certainly isn't the end of religion. The search for meaning and answers to the ultimate questions goes on, and any archaelogical evidence for anything in the Bible will be taken as evidence for the whole. But it may mean a shift in how we think about religion. There may be a good side to this, as we come to temper some of the claims we make for religion. There will also be a bad side. The great crimes of the last century have been attributed to the decline of religion. If people cease to be bound by religious constraints, will they commit similar crimes?

The hundred and fifty year old cliche about the great Kulturkampf between modernism and the dark forces of fundamentalism that was given new life by 911 may turn out not to be true. The challenge of the 21st century may be finding something true to believe in, not in overcoming belief. So will we perish from lack of faith or will monsters be unleashed by the perversion or decline of religion?

[eddie willers]

His grief caused him to become basically an agnostic.

I didn't see it that way.
IIRC, he never questioned God's existence....just the extent of His power.

[DittoJed2]

Ever hear Bryant Wood speak on the subject? He destroys the "conventional wisdom" of some archaeologists based upon Kathleen Kenyon's work that the ruins at Jericho do not support the Biblical story. In fact, they fit it to a tee.

[SJackson]

Yehuda, maybe you can help me. I won't be buying the book, and I doubt it will even make the NYT best seller list.

But, fiction I could understand. A Torah and commentary? What is the commentary, it didn't happen that way?