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To: Dukie

While the guy was polite & sounded to be interested, when I asked if anyone from his office would attend, he claimed they weren't invited

Actually Congress Critters weren't invited. The promoters of this fiasco were only interest in questioning the peons, i.e. (IRS & DOJ).

Since it's Congress that make the income tax laws, seems to me the focus should be on Congress. The Courts have been saying so for nearly two hundred years now:

McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819)

 

Springer v. United States(1880), 102 U.S. 586

  • "The central and controlling question in this case is whether the tax which was levied on the income, gains, and profits of the plaintiff in error, as set forth in the record, and by pretended virtue of the acts of Congress and parts of acts therein mentioned, is a direct tax."
  • "Our conclusions are, that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes, as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate; and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complains is within the category of an excise or duty."
  • "If the laws here in question involved any wrong or unnecessary harshness, it was for Congress, or the people who make congresses, to see that the evil was corrected.
    The remedy does not lie with the judicial branch of the government."
  • Champion v. Ames(1903), 186 U.S. 321

    MCCRAY v. U S, 195 U.S. 27 (1904)

    So why were Schulz & Company focused on the minions and not the culprits who we should be going after? Congress Critters. After all they are the ones who make and change the laws, seems kinda silly to go after the bureaucrats doing the Congress Critters dirty work.

    6 posted on 03/05/2002 11:32:08 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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    To: ancient_geezer
    bttt
    7 posted on 03/05/2002 2:51:21 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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    To: ancient_geezer
    Well, _geezer, wasn't Congressman Roscoe Bartlett the guy who Schulz & org. originally petitioned. I'm not sure why he was singled out - perhaps connected with his committee assignments - but it seems that Congress - or at least a particular Congressman was the object of the question.
    8 posted on 03/05/2002 3:36:18 PM PST by Dukie
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    To: ancient_geezer
    Taxes - This term in its most extended sense includes all contributions imposed by the government upon individuals for the service of the state, by whatever name they are called or known, whether by the name of tribute, tithe, talliage, impost, duty, gabel, custom, subsidy, aid, supply, excise, or other name.

    The 8th section of Art. I, Const. U. S. provides, that "Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay," etc. "But all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."

    In the sense above mentioned, taxes are usually divided into two great classes, those which are direct, and those which are indirect. Under the former denomination are included taxes on land or real property, and under the latter taxes on articles of consumption.

    Sales Tax -- Any tax levied on, with respect to, or measured by, sales, receipts from sales, purchases, storage, or use of tangible personal property. 4 USC

    Tangible personal property - Property that has physical substance and can be touched; Anything other than real estate or money, including furniture, cars, jewelry and china. Intangible property (example; a check account) lacks this physical quality.

    Real Property - Land and all the things that are attached to it. Anything that is not real property is personal property and personal property is anything that isn't nailed down, dug into or built onto the land. A house is real property, but a dining room set is not.

    That which consists of land, and of all rights and profits arising from and annexed to land, of a permanent, immovable nature. In order to make one's interest in land, real estate, it must be an interest not less than for the party's life, because a term of years, even for a thousand years, perpetually renewable, is a mere personal estate...

    The principal distinctions between real and personal property, are the following:

    1. Real property is of a permanent and immovable nature, and the owner has an estate therein at least for life.
    2. It descends from the ancestor to the heir instead of becoming the property of an executor or administrator on the death of the owner, as in case of personalty.
    3. In case of alienation, it must in general be made by deed and in presenti by the common law; whereas leases for years may commence in futuro, and personal chattels may be transferred by parol or delivery.
    4. Real estate when devised, is subject to the widow's dower personal estate can be given away by will discharged of any claim of the widow.

    By focusing soley on Americans' antipathy toward the IRS and the Income Tax, the NRST attempts to fulfill Marx's assualt on individual property rights by imposition of a sales tax on Real Property as though such property were merely a consumable good ( - Cargo shipped by sea, land or air) or service ( - The being employed to serve another.)

    As NRST advocates also attempt to redifine "rent" as a "service", we should also take a closer look at the difference in legal definition of these two words as well:

    Service - The being employed to serve another.

    Rent - The consideration paid for the right to use and possess property.

    A certain profit in money, provisions, chattels, or labor, issuing out of lands and tenements in retribution for the use. (In feudal times, in some cases, essentially an INCOME TAX placed on the tenant!!!)

    If one were to click on the links provided for the fuller, more complex definitions, we would learn that there is a relationship between the terms "rent" and "service". However, it IS NOT that the landlord provides a service to the tenant!!! Quite the opposite!!! The tenant performs service to the landlord!!!!

    So once again, NRST must completely mutilate centuries of English Common Law regarding Real Property and Property Rights (by totally reversing the fundamental definition of "service") in order to impose a different form of Marxist taxation on the American People.

    From Marx's Communist Manifesto:

    The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

    Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production.

    These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

    Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

    1.Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

    2.A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

    Of course, it is not the "proletariat" who are imposing these Marxist atrocities against individual property rights. It is the political elites in fascist collusion with business investor/landlord interests who stand to benefit from such change.
    10 posted on 03/05/2002 3:38:49 PM PST by Willie Green
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