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To: ancient_geezer
"This whole thing has been hyped from the beginning by Schulz ..." -- ancient_geezer

You call this disappointment "hype." I call our government irresponsible about a clear method for taking them to task about grievances. They won't answer anything unless you take them to court. Even then, they "can't recall" or they, "don't know."

There is no such thing as petioning our government about grievances, today. And you have the *GUTS* to call this "hype." You celebrate another plank hammered into the bridge of a police state in America.

18 posted on 03/05/2002 6:16:06 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Buckeroo

They won't answer anything unless you take them to court.

Who doesn't answer?

Problem is Shulz isn't questioning Congress who is responsible for the tax mess that is the income and payroll tax system of this country. He insists on questioning the mininons and they have answered in no uncertain terms through the IRS, DOJ and the Courts.

As far a challenging the law per-se, its Congress, no other real choice exists.

It's Congress you have to go after and hold accountable.

Here's the IRS written positions and answers based on Congress' express intent:

FRIVOLOUS FILING POSITION BASED ON SECTION 861

NonFiler Enforcement Program

Here's the Department of Justice's written position on 16th amendment and other common tax protest positions:

DOJ CRIMINAL JUSTICE MANUAL, Section 40 TAX PROTESTORS

And a comprehensive FAQ compiled by a lawyer of all the Tax Protest arguments that have failed repeatedly and why:

THE TAX PROTESTER FAQ

And there are of course the many Court cases from the Article III Courts, (i.e. federal district, appellate, & Supreme Court) that support all the above.

The ultimate place to go for the answers, is Congress. They, afterall are the ones ultimately responsible for the condition of the Statutes, Regulations and Executive Orders. It is Congress in the end the enacts the enabling legislation and accepts or rejects the content of all Regulations and E.O.s.

The Courts have made it abundantly clear that the arguments presented in the above texts are failed and decided, and provide no relief to the defendant. Infact they have also made it very clear as to where to turn for relief from the very beginning as regards the income tax law.

Springer v. United States(1880), 102 U.S. 586

  • "If the laws here in question involved any wrong or unnecessary harshness, it was for Congress, or the people who make congresses, to see that the evil was corrected.
    The remedy does not lie with the judicial branch of the government."
  • Champion v. Ames(1903), 186 U.S. 321

    And the standard you must meet to have a successful court case as regards arguments of Tax Law constitutionality:

    MCCRAY v. U S, 195 U.S. 27 (1904)

    And finally, for a blow by blow of the judgements of more current cases:

    Quatloo's Tax Protestor Gallery

    Study the losses, find out why they occurred then build a strategy around something new instead of repeating the same old tired and dead as a door nail tactics. Judges get bored too, and when a Judge gets bored he throws the argument out as frivolous (we heard it before and weren't impressed) and tacks on a few more $K (FRNs acceptable but they will take payment in gold if you insist) on top of whatever else has been laid on you.

    Better yet, pound on Congress Critters, and get the law changed. A much more likely scenario than using the same old arguments that have failed hundreds of times.

    But then there are those who insist on doing it the hard way:

    If you don't like the answers, its time to take Congress to task, not the minions doing Congress Critter's dirtywork.

    22 posted on 03/05/2002 6:35:21 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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    To: Buckeroo

    And you have the *GUTS* to call this "hype."

    I certainly do. Not one argument that Schulz and folks offer has the least shred of validity in the courtroom. Any who rely on this garbage are in for one whale of a beating in the courtrooms where such thing will inevitable be decided.

    A person stripped of wealth and liberty in a courtroom because he is using failed and totally useless arguments sold to him by some TP guru scam artist, is rendered completely ineffective in any real fight to get rid of the income tax or in any way do anything to change this countries law.

    I for one choose to let the diver know about the empty pool. Looks more like some around here are more interested in watching the bloody splat when the poor guy hits the concrete.

    United States v. Sloan, 939 F.2d 499 (7th Cir. 1991)
    Argued that there is no law imposing a tax on income, that "freeborn" state citizens are exempt from income tax, and that an individual is not a "person" under the tax code.

    KANNE, Circuit Judge.

    By the way, New American, the house publication of the John Birch Society sees things pretty much as I do.

    Patriot Beware!
    by Thomas R. Eddlem

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no04/vo13no04_patriot.htm

    24 posted on 03/05/2002 6:48:26 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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