Al Neuharth: Why is China OK, but Cuba 'enemy'?

USA Today ^ | February 22, 2002 | Al Neuharth, USA Today founder

[Cincinatus' Wife]

In Beijing, Bush called China our ''partner.'' Cuba officially is our ''enemy.'' Why?

Because a small number of powerful exiles in South Florida cow our politicians into keeping the crazy Cuban policy. That was designed to castrate Fidel Castro and has failed for more than 40 years.

[Jhoffa_]

Is that what you want?

Why not?

I mean, investment is a game of risks vs benefits. If someone thinks they can make a boat load investing in Cuba and we are going to maintain that humanitarian issues like those in China don't matter then, sure.

But don't bail them out, why should we?

[Jhoffa_]

Were there a Contractual Agreement between the government and any person investing in Cuba that stated that the US was not responsible for their property or person should they be tossed in jail or killed, then by all means, go for it.

We need no contract. The FED has no obligation to make buisness people "whole" if they make a bad investment as it is.

How many Americans would accept that kind of a deal?

American Farmers for one, travel and tourism would probably take a serious interest also.

There would probably be a few who would, and then go screaming to their embassy anyway, and the media would also put pressure on the government to assist.

Well, they do that now. Look at enron and all the schmucks that ties 100% of their stock up in enron, lost it all and now want to be made "whole" We can't let the spectre of a buisness failure end all investment.

It is a lose-lose proposition until Castro dies, or there is a real internal revolution over there.

So, I can't even vacation there?

That's fair?

[Luis Gonzalez]

You don't know what you're talking about.

[GuillermoX]

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You keep missing the obvious.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You don't know what you're talking about...let's start with this.

"I doubt most Exiles send dollars back to Cuba."

22 posted on 3/3/02 8:09 AM Pacific by GuillermoX

DAILY LIFE IN CUBA(or "Life in Red")

by:Raul Rivero -Independent Cuban Journalist

(Published by Le Monde, Paris, France, on January 2, 1999)

There is not only one Cuba. There are several. One for the ruling class and another for tourists, diplomats and other foreign visitors. These two are very similar. However, there is another country for those who do not receive any of the $800 million dollars sent yearly to the island by Miami-based exiles, and who do not have relatives working in foreign corporations or mixed-capital enterprises.

So, we can agree that you didn't known what you were talking about there, right?

[GuillermoX]

Notice that I said "most". Most does not mean none. Most does not mean a substantial portion. Most means over half. Get a dictionary "Luis".

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I would venture to say 80%+ of Exiles would never consider sending a cent back, until Castro is gone."

38 posted on 3/3/02 8:25 AM Pacific by GuillermoX

Eighty percent plus you said. Now you're saying that you said something else.

You didn't know anything about the figure I just posted didn't you?

Eight hundred million dollars is a significant amount of money for less than 20% of the Cuban exile population to send off, wouldn't you say?

"Notice that I said "most". Most does not mean none. Most does not mean a substantial portion. Most means over half. Get a dictionary "Luis"."

130 posted on 3/3/02 12:50 PM Pacific by GuillermoX

"MOST DOES NOT MEAN A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION...."

80%+ is a substantial portion, in my book.

[GuillermoX]

20% is a substantial portion, first of all. Substantial does not imply a majority. Second, the 80% number I used was an OPINION, I did not say this was a fact. But since you can't present any facts on exactly what percentage of Exiles send $ to Cuba, I'll stick with my assertion that "Most Cuban Exiles do not send money to Cuba". I personally don't know of any who send money back.

[Jhoffa_]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Works for me.

The disparity is troubling though... I mean, I thought commies were bad.

(yes, even the rich ones.. )

[Luis Gonzalez]

Look, you just got busted making statements that you know nothing about, and now you're trying to parse words to slink away fromn the embarrasment of getting egg on your face. It's OK, no one knows everything...except me of course. The fact remains that you had no clue as to the $800 million dollars sent to Cuba by exiles every year, and that's OK too, it isn't something to brag about, but the money goes to help their families there, and most of us look the other way.

You also made mention that sending money to Cuba is considered to be treason by exiles (treason means treason, right?), I can tell you that what really constitutes treason in the mind of the vast majority of Cuban exiles, is supporting the lifting of the embargo.

Something that you seem to support.

Unlike you, I am not a child of exiles.

I am an exile.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"(yes, even the rich ones.. )"

Please stay on topic. We're not discussing Ted Turner now.

[GuillermoX]

I am aware that Exiles send $ to Cuba. I was never aware of the exact number, and I'm not sure I believe the "$800MM" figure.

Yes, some Exiles consider it treason to send dollars and spend dollars in Cuba. I said as much already.

Like I said earlier, yes, most Exiles would consider it treason to end the Embargo as well.

You still have not offered a shred of evidence that most Exiles send $'s to Cuba.

It's amazing how this thread has grown so large and one of my original questions has yet to be answered. I'm still wondering what the arguments for the embargo are (saving US business from bad debt is NOT a reason). I have also yet to hear how the Embargo has weakened Castro. Of course, to ask these tough questions brings out attacks.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Because a small number of powerful exiles in South Florida cow our politicians into keeping the crazy Cuban policy."

...and they ain't lifting the embargo without the fight of their lives.

[Jhoffa_]

Why is sending dollars to Cuba not "treason" (And I think that's too strong a word, personally) While investment is "treason" (or is considered to be, or whatever)

[GuillermoX]

That's a good question. He'll likely say "well, that $ goes directly to the people" (but what he won't tell you is that they'll spend them in the dollar stroes, which Castro owns).

The Exiles hold on to the Embargo because they've believed in it for 40 years. If you truly believe in something for 40 years, it's extremely difficult to admit that it is now bad policy. In the years of the Cold War, it was good policy because it sapped the Soviets. We should have ended the Embargo in 1991.

[Luis Gonzalez]

In order for the embargo to be lifted, Fidel needs to make reparations for the billions of dollars in personal property he stole from both Cubans and Americans.

From the Bacardi family, to the Lobo family, to the Fanjul family, and down to the last guajirito whose land was "nationalized" during the Agrarian Revolution he needs to pay back what was taken.

Fidel won't do that.

To lift the embargo is to make the statement that stealing people's property, whether Americans or Cuban nationals, is OK with the US government.

Take a second and do some research on Castro's foreign debt, he's defaulted on billions of dollars. He's turning to the US because very few countries give him credit anymore. There's been a partial lift of the embargo allowing for food and humanitarian supplies to be sold to Cuba on a COD basis. Fidel bought food last month, people in the know are saying that the food went to the government hotels to feed the tourists.

Fidel will not allow the people of Cuba to trade with the US, they're not allowed to own their own business there. What do you think people who are not allowed to own a manufacturing plant are going to export to the US?

Mangos?

Fidel owns them too.

Just last year, Castro was in Africa at some conference of Third World countries urging them to defaut on their payments to the US because it would damage our economy. You want to trade with this guy?

As far as the number if exiles sending money to Cuba, you've said the most didn't, then you said that most wasn't half, and that it either WAS or WASN'T a substantial portion ( I am getting dizzy from the spin here). Let's just say that while I may not know the exact number of people sending money to Cuba, neither do you, and you are the one that started the whole topic to begin with.

I do know that $800 million is a considerable amount of money, and if a link to a major international publication to support my $800 million figure isn't sufficient verification for you, I am inclined to believe that you simply do not WANT to believe.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.