The Middle Eastern (Iraq) Connection to Oklahoma City (1995 Official Congressional Prior Warning)

Indianapolis Star (Opinion Section) ^ | February 17, 2002 | Jim Crogan

[OKCSubmariner]

Ever since the country was savagely attacked on Sept. 11, the FBI has relentlessly investigated flight schools, airports, universities, mosques, Middle Eastern charities and Muslim communities, looking for connections to al-Qaida or other jihadist groups.

The only stone, it seems, the bureau hasn't been willing to turn over is its own investigation into the Oklahoma City bombing. Presumably, that's because the 1995 terrorist attack was the exclusive work of homegrown extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Or was it?

Even though McVeigh went to his death denying any larger plot, serious questions remain unanswered. Did John Doe No. 2 ever exist? If so, who is he? If not, why did a second suspect initially emerge? What material or witnesses did the bureau use to create its three sketches of this alleged co-conspirator?

And then there's that troublesome FBI-authorized all-points bulletin issued just minutes after the truck bomb exploded. The alert sent members of Oklahoma City law enforcement searching for two Middle Eastern-looking men seen speeding away from the blast area in a brown Chevy pickup with tinted windows and a bug shield. The APB was abruptly cancelled several hours later without explanation.

The evidence that the Oklahoma City bombing involved a larger conspiracy, one with Middle Eastern connections, is compelling. And the trail begins with that mysterious pickup.

The week after the bombing, Jayna Davis, a veteran Oklahoma City reporter at KFOR-TV, got a tip, which began her investigation of a local property management company. Dr. Samir Khalil owns Samara Properties, and several former employees told Davis they had seen a pickup, matching the APB's description, at the office.

Davis discovered that Khalil, a Palestinian expatriate, had pled guilty in 1991 to several counts of insurance fraud and served eight months in a federal prison. Khalil's court papers indicated that the FBI investigated him for alleged connections to the Palestine Liberation Organization. But Khalil vehemently denied any PLO links. And he's never responded to my calls for comment.

Former Samara employees also told Davis that six months before the bombing, Khalil hired a group of Iraqi refugees to do painting and construction work. This group had allegedly fled Iraq to escape Saddam Hussein's regime. But a Samara employee told Davis he saw them cheering the terror attack and vowing to die in Saddam's service.

Davis then used surveillance camera to take pictures of these Iraqis. Eventually, she focused on one man, Hussain Alhussaini (also known as Al-Hussaini Hussain), who seemed to match the last FBI profile sketch and description of John Doe No. 2.

Over the next several months, she interviewed witnesses who said they saw McVeigh in the company of a Middle Eastern-looking man in the days and hours before the bombing. Using KFOR's photo line-up, they identified that individual as Alhussaini.

Perhaps the most intriguing statements she collected came from a host of staff members at a motel near downtown Oklahoma City. They reported seeing McVeigh with a number of Middle Eastern men at the site in the months preceding the bombing. Using KFOR's photos, those men were identified as Samara employees. Alhussaini was included in that group.

The motel witnesses also said they saw several of the Iraqis moving large barrels around in the back of an old white truck. The barrels, they alleged, emanated a strong smell of diesel fuel, one of the key ingredients used in the Oklahoma City bomb.

Davis also discovered that the mysterious brown Chevy pickup was impounded by the FBI on April 27, 1995. The pickup had been abandoned in an apartment building lot. According to the police report, the truck had been stripped of its license plate, inspection tag and all its vehicle identification numbers. It also was spray-painted yellow, but the original color was listed as brown. One resident at the complex told the FBI the driver was "clean-shaven, with an olive complexion, dark, wavy hair and broad shoulders," in his late 20s or early 30s and of Middle Eastern descent.

Davis also used a hidden camera to interview Lana Padilla, Terry Nichols' ex-wife, about Nichols' repeated trips to the Philippines, a hotbed for terrorist activity. "Tim bought Terry the first ticket for the Philippines," Padilla said. That trip occurred in 1989. His last visit came in November 1994.

Ramzi Yousef, the Iraqi convicted for masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and a plot to blow up U.S. airliners, operated out of Mindanao and Manila in the Philippines. Yousef received funding from Osama bin Laden. According to a motion filed by the McVeigh defense team, an American fitting Nichols' description met with Yousef in the Philippines in 1992 or 1993.

Davis eventually aired a number of pieces, taking care to disguise the Iraqi's identity. However, Alhussaini voluntarily stepped forward on June 15, 1995, to publicly claim that KFOR and Davis had labeled him as John Doe No. 2.

Alhussaini told Channel 9 in Oklahoma City he was living in fear. He claimed to be working at one of Khalil's properties when the bombing occurred. And he produced a handwritten time sheet as proof. The former Iraqi soldier also denied knowing McVeigh, and demanded a public apology from KFOR.

KFOR and Davis stood by their reports and countered with witnesses who contradicted Alhussaini's assertions, including the time sheet, which was labeled a fabrication. Alhussaini responded by filing a state civil libel suit. However, he withdrew the suit the day before a judge was scheduled to rule on KFOR's motion for summary judgment.

Meanwhile, Alhussaini's suit froze KFOR's coverage of the story. And Davis eventually quit after The New York Times bought the station and the investigation was stopped. The former reporter, who had collected 22 signed affidavits from the witnesses she interviewed, was called to testify before a state grand jury that examined the bombing in 1997. With the witnesses' permission, she gave the grand jury the affidavits.

Alhussaini then refiled his libel suit in federal court. Once again attorneys for KFOR and Davis filed for a dismissal. On Nov. 17, 1999, U.S. District Judge Tim Leonard granted their motion. In his ruling, Leonard stated that all the facts in Davis' report were either true or statements of opinion, and did not libel the plaintiff. Alhussaini then appealed the ruling. A hearing was held on Sept. 10; a decision is pending.

Alhussaini moved from Oklahoma City and was reportedly living in the Boston area. His lawyer declined to give me a phone number for his client.

According to 1997 medical records produced during his federal suit, Alhussaini said he had worked for a while at Boston's Logan Airport (where two of the planes were hijacked on Sept. 11). Quoting from those records, Alhussaini first told his psychiatrist that he had quit his airport job because, "If anything happens there, I will be a suspect." However, he later told his doctor that he "wanted to look for another job because he feels unsafe in the environment he works in, the airport, given the recent events involving his being previously suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma bombing."

Alhussaini's specific job at the airport was never identified. I contacted the Massachusetts Port Authority, which oversees Logan, to obtain dates of employment. A spokesperson said the agency would not release any information.

During the course of her investigation, Davis made contact with Yossef Bodansky, executive director of the 13-year-old Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. Bodansky told Davis the task force had warned of an impending Islamic-sponsored terrorist attack in America's heartland back in 1995.

On Feb. 27, 1995, the task force had issued its first confidential warning to federal agencies that Islamic terrorists "may soon strike Washington D.C., specifically the Capitol and the White House." This confidential alert, which he said was quietly distributed to federal intelligence agencies and law enforcement, claimed the attacks were to begin after March 21, 1995.

"Striking inside the U.S. is presently a high priority for Iran," stated the warning. The alert also stated that upcoming terrorist strikes might be directed against "airports, airlines and telephone systems." In light of Sept. 11, it was a telling note.

On March 3, 1995, the task force issued an update. This "super-sensitive" alert stated there was a "greater likelihood the terrorists would strike at the heart of the U.S." Bodansky also told Davis that after the truck bombing, he reviewed intelligence data that confirmed, "Oklahoma City was on the list of potential targets."

Bodansky gave Davis copies of the task force's original alert and some of his confidential notes detailing the update and Oklahoma City's target status. His material notes an independent warning from Israeli intelligence a month before the bombing. The warning indicated a terrorist attack was impending and that "lilly whites" would be activated. Lilly whites, Bodansky writes, were people without any background or police records who would not be suspected members of a terrorist group.

Now President Bush has labeled Iran, Iraq and North Korea an "axis of evil." And hyperbole aside, details of Iran's alleged involvement in terrorism were included in last summer's U.S. Department of Justice indictment issued in connection with the Khobar Towers attack in Saudi Arabia. Moreover, Bodansky told me that Iran and Iraq agreed to cooperate in terrorist operations against the West.

Over the past seven months, I reviewed all of Davis' documents, including the material she got from Bodansky. I also conducted my own follow-up interviews and found no holes in her investigation. As for Davis, she's tried twice to give her material to the FBI.

According to her attorney Tim McCoy, Department of Justice attorneys prosecuting Nichols rejected Davis' documents in 1997 because they didn't want more material to turn over to the defense. McCoy testified to this at a recent hearing in Nichols' state murder case.

In 1999, former FBI agent Dan Vogel accepted the material, but he said that higher-ups later rejected it because the agency questioned Davis' ownership rights.

I called the bureau but it declined to explain this strange turn of events. Perhaps if Vogel had been allowed to testify at a recent hearing in Nichols' Oklahoma murder trial, details would have been forthcoming. But the Justice Department refused to let him take the stand.

Is this a case of FBI incompetence, political interference or the Justice Department's desire not to complicate a seemingly open-and-shut case against McVeigh and Nichols? I don't know.

I do know that too many questions remain unanswered. And I wonder: If the FBI had followed through on these leads, might agents have turned up links to sleeper cells or the network that planned the Sept. 11 massacre?

[It'salmosttolate]

To _Jim:
The wheather man said it was going to rain today but it didn't. That doesn't mean it's not going to rain tonight or tomorrow.

Concentration/Detention Camps UN Equipment Said In Place Around US http://www.rense.com/political/campsfound.htm CIVILIAN INTERNMENT CAMPS UP FOR REVIEW http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/archive/government/camp9-97.html

Concentration Camp Locations in Southern California http://www.apfn.org/apfn/concentration.htm

U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM

"The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention
centers by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed
down and to be turned into prisons"
Heres the full article
**************************************************

Web site of Concentration Camps made for you! One of the U.S. Plans for NWO "New world Order"
U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS
FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM

There over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to
receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they
are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency
Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States.

The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons.

Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub programs which will be
implemented once the Rex 84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is
the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly
takeover of the state and local governments by the federal government. FEMA is the
executive arm of the coming police state and thus will head up all operations. The
Presidential Executive Orders already listed on the Federal Register also are part of the
legal framework for this operation.

The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention
facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of the camps can house a
population of 20,000 prisoners. Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of
Fairbanks, Alaska. The Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold
approximately 2 million people.

A person named Terry Kings wrote an article on his discoveries of camps
located in southern California. His findings are as follows:
Over the last couple months several of us have investigated three soon-to-be prison
camps in the Southern California area. We had heard about these sites and wanted to see them for ourselves.

The first one we observed was in Palmdale, California. It is not operating as a prison at
the moment but is masquerading as part of a water facility. Now why would there be a
facility of this nature out in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no prisoners? The
fences that run for miles around this large facility all point inward, and there are large
mounds of dirt and dry moat surrounding the central area so the inside area is not
visible from the road. There are 3 large loading docks facing the entrance that can be
observed from the road. What are these massive docks going to be loading?

We observed white vans patrolling the area and one came out and greeted us with a
friendly wave and followed us until we had driven safely beyond the area. What would
have happened had we decided to enter the open gate or ask questions?

This facility is across the street from the Palmdale Water Department. The area around
the Water Department has fences pointing outward, to keep people out of this
dangerous area so as not to drown. Yet, across the street, the fences all point inward.
Why? To keep people in? What people? Who are going to be it’s occupants?

There are also signs posted every 50 feet stating: State of California Trespassing
Loitering Forbidden By Law Section 555 California Penal Code.

The sign at the entrance says: Pearblossom Operations and Maintenance Subcenter
Receiving Department, 34534 116th Street East. There is also a guard shack located at
the entrance.

We didn’t venture into this facility, but did circle around it to see if there was anything
else visible from the road. We saw miles of fences with the top points all directed
inward. There is a railroad track that runs next to the perimeter of this fenced area. The
loading docks are large enough to hold railroad cars.

I wonder what they are planning for this facility? They could easily fit 100,000 people in
this area. And who would the occupants be?

Another site is located in Brand Park in Glendale. There are newly constructed fences
(all outfitted with new wiring that point inward). The fences surround a dry reservoir.
There are also new buildings situated in the area. We questioned the idea that there were
four armed military personnel walking the park. Since when does a public park need armed guards?

A third site visited was in the San Fernando Valley, adjacent to the Water District.
Again, the area around the actual Water District had fences logically pointing out (to
keep people out of the dangerous area). And the rest of the adjacent area which went on
for several miles was ringed with fences and barbed wire facing inward (to keep what or
who in?) Also, interesting was the fact that the addition to the tops of the fences were
fairly new as to not even contain any sign of rust on them. Within the grounds was a
huge building that the guard said was a training range for policemen. There were newly
constructed roads, new gray military looking buildings, and a landing strip. For what?
Police cars were constantly patrolling the several mile perimeter of the area.

From the parking lot of the Odyssey Restaurant a better view could be taken of the area
that was hidden from site from the highway. There was an area that contained about
100 black boxes that looked like railroad cars. We had heard that loads of railroad cars
have been manufactured in Oregon outfitted with shackles. Would these be of that
nature? From our position it was hard to determine.

In searching the Internet, I have discovered that there are about 600 of these prison sites
around the country (and more literally popping up overnight do they work all night).
They are manned, but yet do not contain prisoners. Why do they need all these
non-operating prisons? What are they waiting for? We continuously hear that our
current prisons are overcrowded and they are releasing prisoners because of this
situation. But what about all these facilities? What are they really for? Why are there
armed guards yet no one to protect themselves against? And what is going to be the
kick-off point to put these facilities into operation?

What would bring about a situation that would call into effect the need for these new
prison facilities? A man-made or natural catastrophe? An earthquake, panic due to
Y2K, a massive poisoning, a panic of such dimensions to cause nationwide panic?

Once a major disaster occurs (whether it is a real event or manufactured event does not
matter) Martial Law is hurriedly put in place and we are all in the hands of the
government agencies (FEMA) who thus portray themselves as our protectors. Yet what
happens when we question those in authority and how they are taking away all of our
freedoms? Will we be the ones detained in these camp sites? And who are they going to
round up? Those with guns? Those who ask questions? Those that want to know what’s
really going on? Does that include any of us? The seekers of truth?

When first coming across this information I was in a state of total denial. How could
this be? I believed our country was free, and always felt a sense of comfort in knowing
that as long as we didn’t hurt others in observing our freedom we were left to ourselves.
Ideally we treated everyone with respect and honored their uniqueness and hoped that
others did likewise.

It took an intensive year of searching into the hidden politics to discover that we are as
free as we believe we are. If we are in denial, we don’t see the signs that are staring at us,
but keep our minds turned off and busy with all the mundane affairs of daily life.

We just don’t care enough to find out the real truth, and settle for the hand-fed stories
that come our way over the major media sources television, radio, newspaper, and
magazines. But it’s too late to turn back to the days of blindfolds and hiding our heads
in the sand because the reality is becoming very clear. The time is fast approaching
when we will be the ones asking "What happened to our freedom? To our free speech?
To our right to protect ourselves and our family? To think as an individual? To express
ourselves in whatever way we wish?"

Once we challenge that freedom we find out how free we really are. How many are
willing to take up that challenge? Very few indeed, otherwise we wouldn’t find ourselves
in the situation that we are in at the present time. We wouldn’t have let things progress
and get out of the hands of the public and into the hands of those that seek to keep us
under their control no matter what it takes, and that includes the use of force and
detainment for those that ask the wrong questions.

Will asking questions be outlawed next? Several instances have recently been reported
where those that were asking questions that came too near the untold truth (the cover
up) were removed from the press conferences and from the public’s ear. Also, those that
wanted to speak to the press were detained and either imprisoned, locked in a
psychiatric hospital, slaughtered (through make-believe suicides) or discredited.

Why are we all in denial over these possibilities? Didn’t we hear about prison camps in
Germany, and even in the United States during World War II? Japanese individuals
were rounded up and placed in determent camps during the duration of the War. Where
was their freedom?

You don’t think it could happen to you? Obviously those rounded up and killed didn’t
think it could happen to them either. How could decent people have witnessed such
atrocities and still said nothing? Are we going to do the same here as they cart off one
by one those individuals who are taking a stand for the rights of the citizens as they
expose the truth happening behind the scenes? Are we all going to sit there and wonder
what happened to this country of ours? Where did we go wrong? How could we let it
happen?
www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html
(the above site is down as of 08/19/01)

White House Briefing Room

February 24, 2000

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release
http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/UNpolice/index.shtml Federal Detention Center in
Honolulu Hawaii, next to Honolulu
Airport and Hickum Air Base.
Completed May 2001 with 670 beds.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Martial_Law/fed_detention.htm

Manzanar War Relocation Center - Owens Valley, California
http://members.aol.com/EARTHSUN/Manzanar.html

Future Military Police to Control America!
http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/UNpolice/nato.php3

There is another element to all this. The Airports being built. One particularly
in Denver, the Denver International Airport. Here there are murals of NAZI
stormtroopers on the walls. Writings from children in the holocaust, and
there is a Masonic Symbol of the Interlocked Compass and it says New World
Airport Commision. THIS IS AMAZING!! SEE THIS FOR YOURSELF!!

Concentration Camps In America
http://www.freedomdomain.com/concamp.html

The Coming American Holocaust
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/camp.htm

NWO Conspiracy
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/eng.htm

300+ concentration camps" (98/4/17)
http://web.archive.org/web/20001210130900/www.guncontrolvictories.com/k_campslist.html

CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN AMERICA State - by - State Index
http://gulagamerika.homestead.com/StateIndex.html

INFO ON DETENTION CAMPS
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/dadmisc/camps.htm

The Final Solution for Patriots and Christians
http://gulagamerika.homestead.com/index~ie4.html

World Government - Is Our Country Ready?
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/world.htm

A must-read for every concerned world citizen
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/worldcitizen.htm

United Nations Children's Fund Seeks to Usurp Parental Rights
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/children.htm

Executive Summary of U.S. Commission on National Security Report
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/security.htm

Executive Orders And Laws relating to National
Emergencies Laws
http://www.disastercenter.com/laworder/50chap34.htm

Wake Up America
http://witewillo.homestead.com/indexwitewillo.html

"Premonitions of an American Holocaust"
http://www.americanholocaust.50megs.com

FUNDAMENTALS OF INTERNMENT/RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS
FM3-19.40 TABLE OF CONTENTS
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-19.40/toc.htm

U.S. PATRIOT ACT HR 3162
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/HR3162.htm

[Fred Mertz]

Spooky reply; thanks.

[Tymesup]

"that all the facts in Davis' report were either true or statements of opinion"

"Firstly, the sentance above is not clear as to what is fact or what is opinion - he simply lumps it all together without discriminaton with that logical 'or' that allows for either. "

I will agree that "all the facts in Davis' report were either true or statements of opinion" would be true if all the facts were statements of opinion. Would you agree that it is unlikely that a judge would use this language if none of the facts were true?

[mancini]

Thanks for the flag, Fred.

[OKCSubmariner]

It is better to trust in God and Jesus Christ than in man (or even in one's own government).

If the day comes when those, who break no laws under the current Constitution but dissent to world government, are imprisoned for being Christians, they will be dispersed among real law breakers in the military and civilian prison camps to hide them, to get some killed and to discredit the rest in the public's eyes.

At the time when this could happen, it would even be presented as necessary and humane to deceive the public.

[rdavis84]

"U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM"

I've had the opportunity to show a few people the location nearby here. I tend to make it a "Cold Call" type driveby and ask them what they think the site is. The fence barbed wire top portion aimed inwards is the one item that even one diehard skeptic couldn't explain away except with "Must be a Mistake". But 1,000's of feet worth of mistake? And a Perfectly conditioned Incinerator? (It was a $32 million Superfund clean up site for a Creosote treatment operation). 24 hr./day guarded with living on-site folks(not a family).

[rdavis84]

"If the day comes when those, who break no laws under the current Constitution but dissent to world government, are imprisoned for being Christians,"

I've only got a short trip to make ;-)

[mancini]

I've only got a short trip to make ;-)

I think I do, too. A curse is upon their house.

[OKCSubmariner]

Response to reply #129:

The Iraqi who was with McVeigh moments before the blast in OKC helped McVEigh and did not try to stop McVeigh. According to KFORTV witnesses the same Iraqi was with McVeigh at several locations prior to the bombing and seven ME men helped finish assembling the truck bomb in OKC.

I have personally met the best witness who saw the Iraq with McVeigh at the scene. The witness is impeccable in my opinion.

McVeigh had a motive to blow up the Murrah building. He was openly sympathetic to children he claimed were killed by the USG in Waco AND Iraq before and after the OKC bombing. He was strongly critical of the USG before and after the OKC bombing and his cricitcms were not part of a CIA orchestrated cover story for his actions in my opinion. He wrote letters before and after the bombing to newspapers expressing his strong feelings blaming the USG. His outrage against the USG over Waco was expressed openly to many during his travels even to Waco and this is well documented and once again was not a CIA cover story.

IF your thesis were to be correct that the Iraqi and McVeigh were trained by the CIA (I know of no proof of that yet) then either the CIA used the Iraqi & McVeigh to help blow up the Murrah building OR the Iraqi and/or McVeigh was to have stopped the bombing but instead double crossed the CIA and the CIA was too dumb to have a fail safe mechanism to stop the operation if something went wrong.

In my opinion, your thesis is unlikely.

However, even if somehow you could prove your thesis as correct, note that all of these scenarios including yours and the scenario that says the Iraqi and McVeigh worked for the Iraqis (Saddam indirectly)and not the CIA still do not remove the fact that there was some foreknowledge and some specific forewarning of the OKC bombing by the CIA and FBI and that HW Bush transferred technology and materials for weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussin in the late 1980s.

I suppose you could conjure up another hybrid scenario that the Iraqi and McVeigh worked for Iraq(Saddam indirectly) and the CIA at the same time at the time of the bombing. I do not have confidence in this theory either.

But no matter how you slice it, McVeigh was at the scene (and at earlier times)with an Iraqi who also worked for and with the God father of Hamas in OKC (associated with the planning and training for the WTC attacks in 1993 and 9/11),with ten other Iraqis known as the Iraqi mob ,with Khalid Moahammed, one on the FBI 22 list of most wanted terrrorists, and with another FBI suspect Abraham Ahmad. Ahmad worked for the same Hamas God father and Ahmad was found to have blue jogging suits(worn by ME men -perhaps Ahmad-seen in front of the Murrah building just before the blast) and bomb making equipment in his luggage as he fled to England.

[rdavis84]

I also have difficulty taking the Murrah blast solely to the Saddam Iraqis. A comprehensive overview of ALL of the unusual occurances prior to and post-blast logically go to an "inside help" situation.

The dissappearing of surveillance tapes from nearby buildings, the deaths of certain key witnesses, the muzzling of testimony, the coverup of the explosives used, etc. in extreme, go too far to be just covering "a sting gone wrong".

Just as you said, GHWB brought the Iraqis here. And they were dispersed, for all practical appearances, as deep agents. If they were to be used against Saddam, how would our supposedly poor intelligence capability vet them? Immediately after the Gulf "War" they were KNOWN to be useful in the future? Doesn't work for me.

Here's an Opinion --- They were brought here by GHWB and Clinton to do Exactly what they did : Create mayhem to the level it would take to implement At Least -- The USA Patriot act. And it worked.

[flamefront]

Not again. You posted this debunked false info. Since I live near this Glendale location it was easy for me to check it out and verify nothing related to the following was true at the time nor has been since:

Another site is located in Brand Park in Glendale. There are newly constructed fences (all outfitted with new wiring that point inward). The fences surround a dry reservoir. There are also new buildings situated in the area. We questioned the idea that there were four armed military personnel walking the park. Since when does a public park need armed guards?

This is false. I hike around that exact spot regularly. While it is good to be suspicious of the govt and FEMA, whoever originally wrote this urban legend successfully achieved their agenda with you.

You can check the FR archives for my response years ago when this was first circulated here.

[OKCSubmariner]

Response to reply #131 by rdavis84:

Rdavis84 wrote:

"I also have difficulty taking the Murrah blast SOLELY to the Saddam Iraqis."

I agree with that statement not because Iraqis and ME types were not involved, they were, but because I know domestic terrorists and possibly FBI informants were also involved at the same time as the ME types.

The many witnesses I and others have actually spoken with bear this out. This includes witnesses connecting domestic "friends" and accomplices of Michael Fortier and Terry Nichols to the OKC bombing at the scene in OKC.

[VOA]

bump

[OKCSubmariner]

BUMP

Please see replies #130 and #133.

[honway]

IF your thesis were to be correct that the Iraqi and McVeigh were trained by the CIA

If I may, I would like to comment on the possibility that McVeigh was a government operative. First let me say upfront I have no proof that McVeigh was a government operative, however, if you procede with the hypothesis that McVeigh was a government operative and then test the hypothesis with the known facts concerning OKC, the hypothesis fits the known facts better than the government version that McVeigh and Nichols acted alone.

Immediately after 9-11, several intelligence experts were interviewed in the media and asked how could our intel failed so badly. The response was that for intelligence assets to infiltrate an organization capable of 9-11 would require the assets to kill people to gain the confidence of the organizations capable of doing us harm. In other words, to gain the needed intelligence and move up in the organization, we would have to permit our guys to blow up buildings and get their hands dirty.

McVeigh wrote a letter to his sister indicating he had been selected for an elite unit to assist other government agencies in law enforcement and other purposes.

Once in custody, McVeigh would change his version of events given to his attorneys to reflect the changes in the governments version of events. He accepted responsibility from the start, but insisted on a jury trial, which was required for the death penalty.

Without question, John Doe II accompanied John Doe I when the Ryder truck was rented, yet the government did not pursue John Doe II.

At every turn the government has covered up the Middle Eastern connection and the bombs inside the Murrah building.

When the missing documents were discovered McVeigh had the opportunity to appeal and make the government look bad. The same government that he hated to such an extreme he was prepared to blow up a day care facility to harm them. Yet McVeigh took the same position as Ashcroft and insisted on a quick execution.

I could type all night with other examples, but the only hypothesis that I have considered that addresses the known facts in the OKC case is that the U.S. government was trying to infiltrate an organization capable of doing us great harm, for example, detonatoning a nuclear weapon in Washington, D.C. during a State of the Union address, and if the price to gain the required intelligence was the sacrifice of 168 citizens, so be it.I do not agree with such tactics, but I understand the dilemma of the desicion makers.

I consider the hypothesis that the OKC cover-up was designed to facilitate the infiltration of an intelligence asset inside an organization capable of doing us great harm as plausible. If true, I hope the contributions John Doe II and others have been worth the price in the eyes of those that would authorize such an operation. In my eyes, nothing is worth the price paid.

[rdavis84]

In continuance of your chain of thought, why don't we consider the Feds Options? I also believe that the Fed fallback of "the Greater Good" is unacceptable.

Right now, we continue the nearly wide open "allowance" of our Nations Enemies to conspire on our own ground. I'm not sure what total number of Islamic Males are present in this country, but why bring them here to train them how to infiltrate their own countries? There is no valid reasoning I'm aware of that says we have a Unique Program of Islamic Subterfuge Training in our Heartland.

Look at the Time Delays we're finding relative to a possible "Program". Now we're at the point of "Blow Them Up" in Iraq. Doesn't speak well for GHWB or Slick or Jr.'s Master Plan. If there WAS a Master Plan, whose was it? The CIA's? Any potential benefit of killing the Infidels at the Murrah Bldg. would be zeroed out by the Circumstances of the potential infiltrators of Saddam's Regime living and training here in the States, given the Islamic Paranoia.

[honway]

There are "special interest" groups in the U.S. and abroad that have a great deal of influence on our foreign policy. This influence sometimes results in policies which are not in the best interest of the American people but satisfy the agenda of the special interest group. I think the practice of importing Iraqi soldiers into the U.S. after the Gulf War was not in the best interest of the American people. So why was it done? I do not know.

[Twodees]

Thanks for the ping. Bumping for later today.

[Tymesup]

It seemed that Ashcroft was in a hurry to execute McVeigh. One explanation is to silence him. Another is that there was another job for McVeigh, which seems considerably less likely. Any reason Ashcroft executes if McVeigh was with the Saddam Iraqi's?