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Sect Couple (SASU)
NPR ^ | 2/14/02 | NPR

Posted on 02/14/2002 7:04:52 AM PST by ArGee

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I didn't pay $18 for the transcript of this segment so I can't post it in its entirety, but I heard it this morning and was absolutely stunned.

Apparently, the couple in question is part of a religious organization that doesn't believe in medical intervention for health problems. They have had at least one child die of suffocation immediately after birth when a simple medical procedure could have saved the child's life. But the procedure would have been against their religion.

Well, a judge didn't think it was right that the child be denied basic medical care because of the parent's religious beliefs so when she was 8 months pregnant with another child he had her incarcerated so he could ensure a doctor would be available during her next labor. The report didn't make this clear, but I think that child was delivered alive and is OK today.

This story had to do with a miscarriage. It seems she got pregnant again, but isn't pregnant now. The judge wants to know what happened to the baby. She says she miscarried, but the judge wants more detail. She's claiming her right to privacy.

Friends, this story has it all. Can we decide some religions are valid and others aren't given the requirement that the Fed can not make any laws considering the establishment of religion or its free expression. What about the right of the child (in this case fetus, in the previous case child) to receive medical care when the parents don't want it to? And, for goodness sake, why would it have been A-OK for this woman to have had an abortion, but the judge wants to grill her to make sure she didn't miscarry because she didn't receive proper prenatal care? Can anyone explain the logic of this one to me?

In fact, the report quoted a legal scholar as saying something like, "I'm very pro Roe v Wade, but I think this is carrying her right to privacy too far. Can she really say, unless you catch me in the act of killing my born baby it's a privacy issue?"

Let's not even bring up partial birth abortion.

My mind is still boggled. Pray for the nation.


SASU stands for Straight Americans Speaking Up. If you're tired of moral relativism being used as an excuse to destroy our American culture, which has moral standards as its foundation, then you are a SASU. Bookmark this link to keep up with moral relativism eroding our culture.
1 posted on 02/14/2002 7:04:52 AM PST by ArGee
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To: *BRAAD; *SASU; JMJ333; Tourist Guy; EODGUY; proud2bRC; abandon; Khepera; Dakmar; RichInOC...
ping

Does anyone have a graphic to depict a mind being boggled?

Note that I've created a SASU ping list to replace BRAAD. I'll use both for a little while, then retire BRAAD.

Shalom.

2 posted on 02/14/2002 7:08:17 AM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
Does anyone have a graphic to depict a mind being boggled?

How's That?

3 posted on 02/14/2002 7:29:06 AM PST by Dakmar
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To: ArGee
Apparently, the couple in question is part of a religious organization that doesn't believe in medical intervention for health problems. They have had at least one child die of suffocation immediately after birth when a simple medical procedure could have saved the child's life. But the procedure would have been against their religion.

A second child--one of a relative--was starved to death by other members of the sect. Both babies were buried in Acadia National Park, I do believe. Members of this sect were jailed for a substantial length of time until they told the authorities where the babies were buried. It wasn't until they got lawyers (they had been refusing counsel) that they told the authorities where they put the children.

Four of their children are in foster care. The woman was visibly pregnant, but now she's claiming she miscarried, but nothing else. I'd like to know what happened to this baby.

4 posted on 02/14/2002 7:32:28 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: ArGee

Friends, this story has it all. Can we decide some religions are valid and others aren't given the requirement that the Fed can not make any laws considering the establishment of religion or its free expression.

No the Feds Constitutionally cannot make any laws that conflict the establishment of religion. But the States can. The extermination order given by Governor Boggs against the Mormons was not overturned by President Polk for that very reason.

What about the right of the child (in this case fetus, in the previous case child) to receive medical care when the parents don't want it to?

It all depends on two things. Who is the legal guardian of our children, the state or parents? If parents, how much liberty do we trust them with?

And, for goodness sake, why would it have been A-OK for this woman to have had an abortion, but the judge wants to grill her to make sure she didn't miscarry because she didn't receive proper prenatal care? Can anyone explain the logic of this one to me?

Simple. The state knows far better how to raise children. It is more a discipline of control, done of course for the chillldren.

5 posted on 02/14/2002 7:40:12 AM PST by scottiewottie
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To: scottiewottie
It all depends on two things. Who is the legal guardian of our children, the state or parents? If parents, how much liberty do we trust them with?

Currently, we trust them with a lot. They can kill the child, for the child's own good of course, as long as the child hasn't left the womb yet.

Oh, wait, that's the problem here. No she can't.

But Roe v Wade is the law of the land. Yes she can.

I suspect that the best answer today's culture warriors can give is, she can kill her child as long as she's not killing it because of a religious belief against modern medicine. If that's her motivation then the state must step in and save the child.

Oops! The mind is being boggled again. See post #3.

Shalom.

6 posted on 02/14/2002 8:22:26 AM PST by ArGee
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To: Catspaw
A second child--one of a relative--was starved to death by other members of the sect.

Hmmm, that doesn't seem like a religious prohibition against advanced medicine, unless the child was on a feeding tube. In which case, what's the problem? The poor folks who have to pay the medical bills have the right to remove a feeding tube so that a patient starves to death. It was just recently decided (but I can't remember the case). In fact, someone else was offering to become the patient's guardian so the husband wouldn't have to pay to keep her alive, but the husband had the tube removed anyway.

Can I presume this baby wasn't starved to death in connection with any medical issues?

Both babies were buried in Acadia National Park, I do believe.

Aha-HA! There's something to get them on. Environmental pollution. I can see where the state would step in on that. Killing your kids isn't a big deal. Starving relatives who can't feed themselves isn't a big deal. But messing up the grass in a national park - that's a big deal. Maybe that's the whole key.

Shalom.

7 posted on 02/14/2002 8:27:03 AM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
Can I presume this baby wasn't starved to death in connection with any medical issues?

From what I remember, the leader of the sect decreed the child was evil (or something akin to that), and had to go on a purification diet. The baby was taken off its normal diet (it may have been a toddler--I'm thinking in the range of a year to 18 months) and put on water and perhaps almond milk.

8 posted on 02/14/2002 8:40:02 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: ArGee
Actually you seem to be incorrect ArGee. There is a procedure called "Induced-Labor Abortion" and is currently being practiced at Christ Hospital [Oak Lawn, IL]. This is where the baby is delivered alive and then left to die.
9 posted on 02/14/2002 8:42:37 AM PST by Khepera
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To: ArGee
""Aha-HA! There's something to get them on. Environmental pollution. I can see where the state would step in on that. Killing your kids isn't a big deal. Starving relatives who can't feed themselves isn't a big deal. But messing up the grass in a national park - that's a big deal. Maybe that's the whole key."" Shalom.

Sad but true. Great job, ArGee!!
10 posted on 02/14/2002 8:42:59 AM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: ArGee
The practical solution is to get get a killing permit from the government, for a small fee of course, to cover the expense of a review board and management costs.
11 posted on 02/14/2002 8:52:50 AM PST by scottiewottie
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To: scottiewottie
Just hire a Doctor to do your killing.
12 posted on 02/14/2002 9:03:08 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
Good thinking. Why should the poor have to pay for killing permits? The doctors can pay for the permits and it can just be passed on as part of National Health Care costs.
13 posted on 02/14/2002 9:08:24 AM PST by scottiewottie
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To: Khepera
This is where the baby is delivered alive and then left to die.

So, you're saying this is another example where the state doesn't care if you let your kid starve to death?

The irony of the whole story is just sickening. Of course, everyond knows that treating your children this way is wrong. But we're tied up in knots because we've given up our right to use language such as right and wrong. In the current political climate, I just can't understand why this woman isn't left to kill her kids or let them live as she chooses.

Then again, I'm not sure how the current political climate condemns Andrea Yates either. It's either OK to kill your kids, or it's not.

Shalom.

14 posted on 02/14/2002 9:24:09 AM PST by ArGee
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To: scottiewottie
Just hire a Doctor to do your killing.

But that was the problem. This sect didn't believe in modern medicine, so they couldn't hire a doctor. Do you suppose they could get their religious leader licensed to kill?

Hi. I'm Pastor Bond, James Bond, 007, licensed to kill.

Shalom.

15 posted on 02/14/2002 9:26:07 AM PST by ArGee
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To: scottiewottie
No the Feds Constitutionally cannot make any laws that conflict the establishment of religion. But the States can.

Amendment 14: "...No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

16 posted on 02/14/2002 9:29:25 AM PST by Sloth
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To: ArGee
Good point ArGee. I wasn't thinking straight but that does not make me homosexual!
17 posted on 02/14/2002 9:32:42 AM PST by Khepera
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To: ArGee
Meanwhile the swinging parents in California that were too busy swapping sex with neighbors to notice an intruder taking their daughter still have the "boys"

Amazing !

18 posted on 02/14/2002 9:36:28 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Sloth
Amendment 14: "See above post #16"

Thereby nulifying or otherwise distroying the "Republican" form of government we once had that ensured that the people actually had control of their own lives.

19 posted on 02/14/2002 9:36:52 AM PST by Khepera
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Dang I kant type gud today:

Thereby nullifying or otherwise destroying the "Republican" form of government we once had that ensured that the people actually had control of their own lives.

20 posted on 02/14/2002 9:38:54 AM PST by Khepera
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