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`Truth' Ads Should Keep Big Tobacco In Doghouse
Hartford Courant ^ | Feb 13 2002 | inside pitch

Posted on 02/13/2002 1:24:46 AM PST by 2Trievers

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:59 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

It's tough to argue with the Lorillard Tobacco Co.'s explanation of the current dust-up over those in-your-face anti-smoking ads.

After all, says Lorillard spokesman Steve Watson, "What manufacturer of a legal consumer product in this country would remain silent when accused of adding dog urine to its product?"

Good question. I'm stumped.

So now, the combatants in the Tobacco Wars are poised for yet another court battle, and this one stands a good chance of watering down those aggressive - and apparently effective - smoking-prevention ads.

All because of that bit with the dog urine.


(Excerpt) Read more at ctnow.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: pufflist
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To: realpatriot71
LOL...who thinks they all are used at once?

They'd go bankrupt in processing them.

21 posted on 02/13/2002 6:14:33 AM PST by Rain-maker
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To: KSCITYBOY
Big tabacco paying the price give me a break

Yes..paying the public relations blunder price. BEFORE the 90's, whenever some emphesema-riddled loser tried to sue Big Tobacco for damages, everyone correctly judged that the plaintif knew the risks involved, and should have to be responsible for their own behavior.

When BT was called up to the chair, they should NOT have lied under oath. They just should have said "Yeah...Nicotine is addictive. Big f**king deal. So is alcohol. So are carbohydrates. That still doesn't make us responsible for the cancer cig smokers pick up."

What they did was lie under oath, and then have documents released showing that not only did they KNOW it was addictive, they were looking at how to hook six graders onto the product.

Now juries are just out for revenge, and don't go by facts or personal responsiblity any more. BT blew it on the handling of the situation...not fair, but life never is.
22 posted on 02/13/2002 6:16:09 AM PST by WyldKard
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To: realpatriot71
I guess intellectually dishonest is a "bad" thing when it is applied to legal drugs like nicotine, but when our government makes intellectually dishonest adds about illegal drugs and terrorism that's ok? Hypocritical at best!

Yeah, and now that we've found out that drug sales help not only communist rebels in Columbia, but also the "valient freedom fighters" opposing them, the hypocrisy continues to march on. So I guess if you buy cocaine, you are either a patriot or a supporter of terrorists, depending on if you buy AUC coke or FARC coke...
23 posted on 02/13/2002 6:21:07 AM PST by WyldKard
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To: WyldKard
I always make sure my coke is "patriot coke". Ask for it by name!

;-)

24 posted on 02/13/2002 6:33:35 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: metesky
What's next?
Big food?
Big autos?
Big clothing?

My money is on Lay-Z-Boy Co.

25 posted on 02/13/2002 6:39:28 AM PST by skeeter
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To: metesky
What's next?

Big food?


Don't laugh. I read an article two weeks ago that said that some lawyers are already doing the research for an eventual class action lawsuit against the "Junk Food Cartel" for "making people dangerously obese".

Ayn Rand was right...Governments only have the power to control criminals. Thus, they pass more laws to create more criminals, and control more people...
26 posted on 02/13/2002 6:45:27 AM PST by WyldKard
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To: WyldKard
Oh I agree the shouldn't have perjured themselves, but send them to jail for it (like they should have BJ Clinton) they only real thing that has been accomplished by the tabacco settlement is a tax has been levied on smokers. Perjury is a criminal offense. The only real punishment is on the pocket books of smokers. BTW as always the lawyers ended up making out like bandits on this particular money exchange.
27 posted on 02/13/2002 10:56:59 AM PST by KSCITYBOY
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To: KSCITYBOY
Oh, I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, BT should have known what would have happened if they just didn't level with everyone. It's not fair, but now everyones "rightous anger" at BT has been unleashed. And we all have to pay for it...

Reminds me of a line I saw recently on an episode of Justice League:

Judge: We got rid of our lawyer problem hundreds of years ago. If you want to be his advocate, you'll share his fate. If he is sentenced to death, so are you.

The Flash: What sort of system is that?!

Judge: Thats how we got rid of our lawyer problem...
28 posted on 02/13/2002 1:23:47 PM PST by WyldKard
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To: Rain-maker
Why should they? When Winston tried it, they were thoroughly slammed for "trying to say their cigarettes were 'healthier' than others," even though they said no such thing. Tobacco companies are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and it's a damned shame.
29 posted on 02/14/2002 9:40:37 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: WyldKard
Big Tobacco is paying the price of their folly back in the mid 1990's when they lied under oath about not knowing nicotine being addictive, ...This is all about revenge, pure and simple. Before those memos showed up, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE was able to win a case against Big Tobacco. After the memos, it seems BT lost cases left and right. Jurors were all pissed off at having been lied to, pure and simple.

Your points are well-taken, but not totally accurate. During the Waxman interrogation--which virtually everyone mis-remembers because the media has mis-reminded them--the tobacco executives were asked whether they "believed" nicotine was addictive. You cannot call that a lie. I don't believe it is either, particularly since I know how that definition came about. And Big Tobacco began losing lawsuits, not because the jurors were pissed, but because the lawmakers changed the laws making it impossible for them to mount a defense. Lawton Chiles in Florida was the first to do so by adding a rider to a certain-to-be-passed bill in a midnight vote, and after the tobacco companies lost, the law was quietly changed back so it wouldn't affect other, more "reputable" and politically correct industries. Then, of course, the money started to flow and the rest is history. Up until now, at least.

30 posted on 02/14/2002 9:50:50 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: 2Trievers
That's the deal the anti-smoking forces signed, and they'll have to live with it. But it's a shame, because truth is, bashing Big Tobacco may be the best way to keep kids away from cigarettes.

Goota love the Lefties... even if it's bad or illegal, if it satisfies their agenda, it's a shame to lose it.

31 posted on 02/14/2002 9:54:53 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: Teacher317
Goota = Gotta
32 posted on 02/14/2002 9:57:50 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: WyldKard
I read an article two weeks ago that said that some lawyers are already doing the research for an eventual class action lawsuit against the "Junk Food Cartel" for "making people dangerously obese".

John Banzhaf, scum-sucking attorney and founder of ASH, the biggest, nastiest anti-smoker bunch in the world, has already filed a lawsuit against Big Food in the form of McDonald's. Their greed knows no bounds.

33 posted on 02/14/2002 9:57:51 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: KSCITYBOY
Oh I agree the shouldn't have perjured themselves, but send them to jail for it

Janet Reno spent five years and $20 million trying to do that. She couldn't because they didn't. Read the transcripts and see what they really said. Had the question been asked another way, maybe they'd be liable, but it wasn't. What someone believes, regardless of what they may have been told by someone else, can never be a "lie" nor can it be perjury. (BC might have been wiser to say "I don't believe I ever had sex with that woman!")

34 posted on 02/14/2002 10:01:53 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: metesky
"Bile is found in feces. Bile is also found in Liberals. Truth."
"Puss contains monocytes. Democrats contain monocytes. Truth"

Wow! The Associaton Game can be fun!

35 posted on 02/14/2002 10:09:06 AM PST by KirkandBurke
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To: Rain-maker
3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol,
para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol,
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One,
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione,
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan,
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One,
2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone,
2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine,
1-Tyrosine,
delta-Undercalactone,
gamma-Undecalactone

What's wrong with this stuff? Looks like everything a growing boy needs. Sorry, just had to say it. As a former smoker and a lifelong user of 'smokeless' tobacco here on Tobacco Road itself, I just don't see the big deal. If you want to smoke, smoke. If you don't, don't. But the 'truth' ads are not only misleading, they're annoying

36 posted on 02/14/2002 10:13:23 AM PST by billbears
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To: Rain-maker
Grape Juice Concentrate

That's what I like about Ocean Spray brand Menthol Cigarettes! That fruity flavor!

37 posted on 02/14/2002 10:17:54 AM PST by Liberal Classic
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To: Max McGarrity
I beg to differ about your opinion on non-additive cigarettes.

R.J. Reynolds wouldn't be buying out Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Co, if there was not a substantial market for them.


WINSTON-SALEM, N.C., Dec. 11 /PRNewswire/ -- R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: RJR - news) today announced it has signed a definitive merger agreement with Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company, Inc. Under the agreement, RJR is acquiring 100 percent of the shares of the privately held Santa Fe for $340 million in cash. RJR expects to close the acquisition in January 2002, following regulatory and Santa Fe shareholder approvals.

``This acquisition is right in line with RJR's goal of maximizing shareholder value and it will benefit RJR shareholders in the short and long term,'' said Andrew J. Schindler, chairman and CEO of RJR. ``Santa Fe is a strong and profitable company. Its brand, Natural American Spirit, is a highly differentiated, growing premium brand. RJR's goal is to enhance the strength of Santa Fe, the equity of Natural American Spirit and the company's relationship with its consumers.''

In the 12 months ending September 30, 2001, Santa Fe had net sales of $94.2 million and net income of $26.7 million. In the past five years, the company's net sales have tripled. Natural American Spirit is sold domestically and internationally with an approximate .21 share of the U.S. market.

Organic cigarettes new fad for "health-conscious" smokers [CMAJ - Jan. 13, 1998] CMAJ/JAMC News and analysis


Nouvelles et analyses

Organic cigarettes new fad for "health-conscious" smokers

CMAJ 1998;158:13

© 1998 Gil Kezwer


Next time you're stocking up on granola at the health food store, you may find another unadulterated product that is becoming popular in Canada and the US -- organically grown American Spirit cigarettes manufactured by New Mexico's Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company. They are currently available at more than a dozen sites across Canada.

Robin Sommers, Santa Fe's president and CEO, says the New Age smokes are made from whole-leaf tobacco and contain no chemical additives, preservatives, reconstituted sheet tobacco, stems, flavourings, moisteners or burning agents. In contrast, popular American-blend cigarettes contain only 60% of shred cut from tobacco lamina. Although they have higher levels of nicotine and tar than conventional smokes, the all-natural cigarettes contain none of the many substances that major tobacco companies have disclosed are added to their products. Sommers stops short of claiming his American Spirit cigarettes are healthy, but disingenuously notes that no studies have been done on them. A health-conscious runner, he doesn't smoke.

The premium-price cigarettes are available in regular filter, menthol filter, unfiltered and "Pow Wow Blend"; the latter is a combination of tobacco and herbs like red willow bark and sage, as well as organic pouch tobacco. Sold under the company's thunderbird icon, packages feature a silhouette of an Indian in a feathered headdress puffing on a long-stemmed peace pipe. The politically correct products are advertised in alternative magazines such as Mother Earth News, Vegetarian Times and the Utne Reader.

No sales figures are released for the privately owned company, but industry analysts estimate that its 1997 sales will top US$55 million. Sales are especially brisk in San Francisco and Seattle and in college towns like Madison, Wis. Overseas markets are also being considered.

The company's success in riding the 1990s' lust for natural products has spurred several major cigarette manufacturers to begin marketing their own "microsmokes." The Philip Morris Co. has introduced Dave's, while R.J. Reynolds created its Moonlight Tobacco subsidiary to market products with names like Sedona and Planet.


38 posted on 02/14/2002 10:28:33 AM PST by Rain-maker
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To: Rain-maker
Actually, Rain-maker, I agree. That doesn't mean they won't take a lot of flack for their decision. They already are because the anti-smokers say this is about "health," but we all know it isn't.
39 posted on 02/14/2002 10:54:25 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: puff_list
Arrogant bastids!
40 posted on 02/14/2002 11:03:19 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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