How schools are tricked into using PCs--when Macs are better

Zdnet ^ | 2/11/02 | Bob Shier

[N. Theknow]

But there's no point in training kids to use an operating system that has less than 10% of the market.

A stick shift in driver's ed?

[Rodney King]

I didn't say that people who used Mac's were gay.

[Rodney King]

Child molesters appear to have thing for Microsoft Windows. Ever notice when you read about their arrests in the news, the cops are always taking their computer and disks. We all know that Macs are so lame the don't have a floppy drive so I guess all those pederasts love Windows!

Nice try. Nobody downloads straight to floppies. It is their hard-drives that they take. Besides, since everyone knows that IDE drives suck, they can't possibly be windows hard drives or the police wouldn't bother taking them.

[Vermonter]

"I always thought the reason most are going to PCs is that MAC only makes up only 3% of computer users. So the children need to learn to use what will be used in the real world. "

I can go along with that argument in high school and even middle school, but for the uses the educators purport to want the elementary school kids to master, the brand of machine is not relevant. If some money can be saved by not having a full time staff to maintain basic machines by having Macs, then use them.

The argument that teachers can't learn how to use the machines is bogus. They're supposed to be teaching the children.

As I said, I have been on a technology committee for our local school and the lack of knowledge about computers by most of the staff/teachers is astounding (regardless of platform). And before anyone takes that statement wrong, I blame the unions and the school administration for this. They would have the teachers doing more and more feel good and other wasteful items than teaching the basics. The unions prevent the school boards from making the teachers responsible for some basic computer knowledge. < /rant>

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

"Companies are fleeing M$ Servers. "

I don't see that happening at all. Exactly the opposite in the sector my customers are in.
We sell and support NAS and SAN hardware and software and I see more and more Win2k clusters every day running Exchange, SQL or Notes Domino R5.
Maybe in other areas, but from where I'm sitting, MS is very popular.

[B Knotts]

Solaris is about to hit the skids as Sun is looking to cut over to Linux.

OK. I've criticized the Windows advocates for their misdeeds; now it's your turn. This is a load of B.S. Sun does sell Linux-based network appliances, but there is absolutely no truth to the idea that they are abandoning Solaris anytime soon.

[Lost Highway]

Unfortunately what it comes down to is that for years Mac's were superior. But the marketing and production folks could never figure out how to get it to the masses. Mr. Gates went the market route first and now has a product that is equally as good. Bottom line, if they had not been so boneheaded and allowed others to make the boxes Windows probably would not exist. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Acutally if it were not for Mr. Gates investment in Apple they would probably be bankrupt by now.

[editor-surveyor]

See Post 140 if you think that I'm wrong.

Also, AutoCAD is not the same program that it was back in 1989.

[js1138]

Does Notes Domino R5 still run in a DOS box?

[pt17]

Companies are fleeing M$ Servers.

Actually, quite the opposite is happening (remember, toupsie, many of the big boys don't do the Gartner/ZDNet/Forrester surveys and many of the small to middle size companies don't show up on their radar because they don't subscribe). I admire your apple zeal but you're beginning to act soundlike Paul Bugala/Begala/Whatever.

[toupsie]

OK. I've criticized the Windows advocates for their misdeeds; now it's your turn. This is a load of B.S. Sun does sell Linux-based network appliances, but there is absolutely no truth to the idea that they are abandoning Solaris anytime soon.

Then why are they adopting Linux? Didn't say they were immediately dropping Solaris but it does appear they will be or there would be no reason for touting Linux compatibility.

[Poohbah]

Then there was the claim of some level of security (C2, perhaps?) for Windows NT...but the fine print said that to be that secure, the machine running NT couldn't be connected to any network.

I think Windows NT can be classified as C2 by the NSA if it is not connected to a network and is buried in three feet of concrete with the PS/2 & USB ports are removed and no monitor is attached.

This was true for Windows NT 3.51.

NT 4.0 Server and Workstation were tested by the NSA in 1999: the final report is available right here. They tested it in a networked configuration--so it's legitimately C2.

[Freebird Forever]

You guys made the following statements:

“I can have access to every imaginable piece of software available to me for both Windows and Mac and run it on my Mac”

"But anyway, any software that you can run on a Windows machine can be configured to run on a Mac."

"MacOS supports and can serve all those protocols except Novell "

It's clear to me that ya'll are much better aquainted with Macs then am I, so perhaps you can answer my question.

I do a great deal of on-line trading (currently on an iMac) and am looking to find some sophisticated stock trading software that will run on the Apple OS, so I don't have to over to switch to the dark side.

Any suggestions?

[B Knotts]

Then why are they adopting Linux?

Because they bought Cobalt. Cobalt already was using x86 architecture and Linux. Sun is continuing with that for that product, but they are sticking with Solaris/SPARC for everything else. For a while, it looked like they might go ia64, along with SGI, but Sun and Intel had a falling out. SGI is still toying with ia64, but it looks like wholesale adoption is at least a few years out. SGI, if it goes all ia64, has pretty much said they'll adopt Linux, and mothball Irix.

[pt17]

Unfortunately what it comes down to is that for years Mac's were superior.

You're right. Apple was starting to make inroads into the big corporations in the late 80s; however, their lack of high speed networking hurt them badly. Appletalk was simply too slow and caused network administrators no end of problems. They were also slow to provide a development environment that the masses could love and use, so the developers followed the PC momentum. All of this (and more) coupled with higher cost relegated a good machine to a niche market. You have to wonder what would have happened if Apple had kept refining and developing their initial apps like MacDraw and MacWord? When they first came out, they were killers.

[B Knotts]

He's talking about his experiences of eleven years ago.

My point is this: the idea that the CPUs in modern Macs are too slow to run CAD programs is ridiculous. They're plenty fast.

[Vermonter]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread today.

Normally any Mac article, particularly those that also mention Windows PC's quickly degenerate into bashing by one side or the other.

This thread today was a major exception. For the most part the comments were based on facts and those who disagreed offered backup for their point of view.

I've learned some things about the PC side and I hope some of the PC stalwarts have learned some new things about Macs.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

"Does Notes Domino R5 still run in a DOS box?"

I would tend to doubt it. Though I've never installed it, I only fix our API client software when a backup fails. I do it all remotely and rarely get out to a customer site. And when I do it's for shmoozing not for fixin'.

[BoomerBob]

Can't let your Apple profits statement stand. Apple has shown huge losses or minimal profits over the last 10-12 years. Their margins aren't any better than the most PC manufacturers.

Compaq and Gateway are struggling 'cause their getting their butt kicked by Dell.

A few other points... all those nifty features you tout for Mac are easily accomplished by my Dell machine (video editing, publishing, etc.) and there is so much more that my PC can do that your Mac can't.

And finally, I have family members in the defense industry and I can assure you that that fate of our nation's command and control (including the CIA) systems are not in the hands of Apple. Maybe the CIA staffer that prints up the employee handbook has a Mac but thats about it.

[toupsie]

Can't let your Apple profits statement stand. Apple has shown huge losses or minimal profits over the last 10-12 years. Their margins aren't any better than the most PC manufacturers.

Apple has had a profitable business during an economic resession. I only count myself as a Mac user since Steve Jobs came back. The previous CEO, Amelio, was a joke. I think Apple still hits a 30% mark up of their systems (why they are more expensive) where most of the x86 industry works on razor thing margins. Apple also has about 4 billion dollars cash in the bank.

Compaq and Gateway are struggling 'cause their getting their butt kicked by Dell.

I think its more than just Dell, its a saturated market that is based on price point more than features. There has been rumblings out of IBM that they might exit the consumer PC market.

A few other points... all those nifty features you tout for Mac are easily accomplished by my Dell machine (video editing, publishing, etc.) and there is so much more that my PC can do that your Mac can't.

I don't see how that could be since I can run all/most Windows Software. Along with running Windows, I can run UNIX applications as well.

And finally, I have family members in the defense industry and I can assure you that that fate of our nation's command and control (including the CIA) systems are not in the hands of Apple. Maybe the CIA staffer that prints up the employee handbook has a Mac but thats about it.

I never said that so I am a little confused why you are pinning that on me.