Libertine Bedfellows

Touchstone Magazine | January/February 2002 | David Mills

[FormerLib]

"[S]urveys have estimated that 4 to 5 percent of men and 2 to 3 percent of women have had same-sex sexual relations after age 18. Studies that count only people who identify themselves as gay or lesbian, however, come up with much smaller numbers: about 2.8 percent of men and 1.4 percent of women." -- The New York Times

The friend who forwarded this to me noted that though homosexualists made up only 2 percent of the population, they were nevertheless a very powerful 2 percent. A group representing only one out of every 50 Americans has such social power, I think, because they represent an extreme of sexual liberty that thereby justifies more "normal" immorality, e.g., rampant heterosexual fornication. The secular straight world listens to them and promotes their cause because it is sexually libertine itself and knows that a world in which sodomy is normal is a world in which no one will think twice about fornication or even adultery.

[FormerLib]

I don't think that I've ever heard this expressed quite as well.

[FormerLib]

Ping!

[TightSqueeze]

Now that you mention it, makes sense to me. It is understandable in the context that in America all sex carries a hidden burden of guilt, it is a holdover of our Victorian upbringing, the rest of the world has moved on and sex there is a less charged subject. As long as there are those out there who believe that morality and sexual norms can be legislated by government there will be an accompanying element that pushes the envelope to the extreme.

[FormerLib]

As long as there are those out there who believe that morality and sexual norms can be legislated by government there will be an accompanying element that pushes the envelope to the extreme.

And the same can be said for those who believe that immorality and approval of sexual perversions can be legislated by government and inflicted upon an otherwise moral people. Hardly the vision of the Founding Fathers.

[Publius6961]

It is mind boggling that such a minuscule percentage can extort the Federal hundreds of millions spent on a fatal disease which is entirely within the "victims'" control.

[FormerLib]

I think it makes more sense when you see how they've recently shifted their "condom awareness" programs into an attack on the Roman Catholic church. Leftists in general just hate their traditional teachings.

[sphinx]

It is understandable in the context that in America all sex carries a hidden burden of guilt, it is a holdover of our Victorian upbringing, the rest of the world has moved on and sex there is a less charged subject.

Let's see. A quarter of all children in the United States are killed by their parents (generally the mother); a third of the survivors are born illegitimate; half of all marriages end in divorce; barely half of all kids will spend their childhoods in intact, two parent homes; the social pathologies attendant on fatherlessness (for the kids) and betrayal and abandonment (for the partners of cheating spouses) are epidemic.

Good thing we have "moved on" from all those stuffy Victorian notions about sex.

[JMJ333]

The secular straight world listens to them and promotes their cause because it is sexually libertine itself and knows that a world in which sodomy is normal is a world in which no one will think twice about fornication or even adultery.

Amen...and amen!

[TightSqueeze]

Good thing we have "moved on" from all those stuffy Victorian notions about sex.

Please share your enlightened answer to the dilemma, I bet it contains stoning and chastity belts.

[TightSqueeze]

approval of sexual perversions can be legislated

Freedom is never legislated, merely acknowledged.

[RLK]

"[S]urveys have estimated that 4 to 5 percent of men and 2 to 3 percent of women have had same-sex sexual relations after age 18. Studies that count only people who identify themselves as gay or lesbian, however, come up with much smaller numbers: about 2.8 percent of men and 1.4 percent of women."

---------------------------

Self ratings are deceptive and sometimes meant to be self-deceptive. How many people with serious drinking problems are there who don't call themselves alcoholics.

[RLK]

A group representing only one out of every 50 Americans has such social power, I think, because they represent an extreme of sexual liberty that thereby justifies more "normal" immorality

------------------------

You support my pathology and I'll support yours. Together we'll unionize and destroy any impediments of cultural sanity.

[FormerLib]

Approval of sexual perversions is not freedom for those forced to comply.

[TightSqueeze]

Approval of sexual perversions is not freedom for those forced to comply.

Stop beating around the bush and provide a few examples of you being forced to sexually comply with whatever agenda you are trying to promote here, and how complying has impinged on your freedom.

(crickets)

[FormerLib]

(crickets)

Huh?

Examples of how decent people are being forced to approve of sexual deviancy abound in modern society.

"Sexual orientation" is being added to various discrimination laws making us unable to screen out employees or tenants who we believe are morally untrustworthy. Federal employees are required to attend 'sensitivity training,' paid for by taxpayers, under threat of various punishments.

Hate crimes legislation is being advanced against even speaking out against the perversions. Billboards displaying Biblical admonitions against sodomy were labelled 'hateful' and ordered removed. So much for freedom of speech and religion, huh? Guess it only applies one way.

Taxpayer money is being used to teach sexual amorality to children via the public schools. They are also taught that anyone who disagrees is 'homophobic' and 'hateful.'

Yeah, (crickets).

[Ol' Sparky]

Very well put, indeed. This is also the reason so many Americans turned a blind eye to Clinton's sexual behavior. Compared to the average homosexual or Clinton, most can claim to look relatively moral.

[tdadams]

It is mind boggling that such a minuscule percentage can extort the Federal hundreds of millions spent on a fatal disease which is entirely within the "victims'" control.

But it would be acceptable if a larger percentage of people extorted this money? Say, smokers? So the evil is in the degree, in your opinion, not the extortion itself?

[tdadams]

And the same can be said for those who believe that immorality and approval of sexual perversions can be legislated by government and inflicted upon an otherwise moral people.

Whether you approve or disapprove is up to you, but let's distinquish something. Tolerance is not the same as acceptance is not the same as approval is not the same as sanctioning.

No one can apply the force of government to make you sanction a behavior you disapprove of. You may have to tolerate it to the extent that not doing so would violate the rights of others.

[Redcloak]

[A] a world in which sodomy is normal is a world in which no one will think twice about fornication or even adultery.

This is quite correct. The Left has for many years had an antipathy towards traditional Judeo-Christian values. Those values make the Leftists feel guilty about their own sexual practices. (As I recall, it was one of the Huxleys who came right out and said this in explaination of the Left's hostility towards Christianity.) And, of course, they attempt to write laws that reflect that hostility; jamming their values down everyone else's throats. But the problem is that the Right has been down just that for years. Rightist laws on behavior set a precedent for these new Leftist laws. Had there been a basic respect for individual liberty from the Right, the Left would have no legal tradition to build upon. Those who decry the new laws have the old ones to blame.

[ArGee]

I don't know if SAD and homosexual fornication are the same dysfunction, but I know they are both dysfunctions and they have the same root.

When I was a kid there were seven deadly sins. You in the RCC may still recognize them. One of them was lust. Now the truth of the deadliness of that sin is evident.

SAD is probably the most egregious evidence.

Shalom.