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1 posted on 02/06/2002 5:59:36 AM PST by callisto
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To: callisto
bump
2 posted on 02/06/2002 6:30:33 AM PST by VOA
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To: callisto
A research team headed by William McGinnis at the University of California at San Diego just reported discovering a DNA mutation that produces shrimp without hind legs. Since shrimp normally have lots of legs, and insects have only six, the researchers claim they have discovered the genetic mechanism that caused terrestrial insects to evolve from aquatic ancestors hundreds of millions of years ago

And for their next act, the evolutionists will proceed to demonstrate how the cow evolved from the pine tree.

For those of you who'd like to play at home, here's a model of a cow, which when printed, will be made from the byproducts of a tree :)


3 posted on 02/06/2002 6:42:29 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: *crevo_list
bump
6 posted on 02/06/2002 6:57:01 AM PST by Gladwin
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To: callisto
This piece reads more like propaganda than a legitimate, objective, news article. Might it be possible this "newswire" is really a creationist front?
8 posted on 02/06/2002 8:40:43 AM PST by Junior
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To: callisto
If evolution and darwinism were so obvious, self evident and provable, why do they have to fake the results and kill many to advance it? (As did Stalin)
16 posted on 02/06/2002 10:31:02 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: callisto

22 posted on 02/06/2002 11:54:22 AM PST by Nebullis
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To: callisto
The core point of evolution is positive, lasting mutation. A shrimp born without legs is not a positive. It a cripple. Using an evolutionist's logic, thalidimide babies must have been the next step in human evolution.
23 posted on 02/06/2002 11:54:41 AM PST by aimhigh
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To: callisto
bookmark
29 posted on 02/06/2002 1:47:34 PM PST by medved
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To: callisto
. Since shrimp normally have lots of legs, and insects have only six, the researchers claim they have discovered the genetic mechanism that caused terrestrial insects to evolve from aquatic ancestors hundreds of millions of years ago.

BAAAA-HA-HA-HA-hA...

31 posted on 02/06/2002 2:09:46 PM PST by ez
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To: callisto
We now take a break from our regularly scheduled thread, to present another graphic demonstration on evolution. Here, we will consider the evolution of the common, everyday tricycle.

You can easily see the similarities in the earlier "proto" form. While scientists are still looking for the actual mechanism that caused the mutation to occur, Stephen Jay Gould conjectured that it is probably one of these three...


35 posted on 02/06/2002 3:19:31 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: callisto
Here's UCSD's side of the story.
39 posted on 02/06/2002 5:18:38 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: callisto
I think I can sum up the point of the UCSD article: It's not just that they found an example of a major evolutionary change (although they did). They found that t was not that shrimp became insects through an extremely improbably series of all extremely improbable mutations, but that some of the mutations were common, as far as mutations go, whereas other mutations were probably very rare.

The mutation to remove many of the legs is a simple and common mutation. The first time it happened, it resulted in a lame shrimp, which died off. But it happened quite often, and eventually, it happened to a shrimsect (shrimp in the process of evolving into an insect, that's NOT a scientific term!).

At some point along the shrimsect's evolutionary path, having only six legs--having this common mutation--was more beneficial than having a lot of legs, so the shrimsects with the mutation survived more than those without the mutation. In other words, not every mutation to occur along the path from shrimp to insect was a highly improbable one (although many must have been), some were more common, which makes evolution that much less statistically improbable.

40 posted on 02/06/2002 5:28:39 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: callisto
Some comments you might find of interest....

NCSE asks Discovery Institute: Where's the Shrimp?

by Alan Gishlick

In a Discovery Institute press release dated Feb. 6, Jonathan Wells accuses three developmental biologists of making "exaggerated claims" in a recent paper in Nature (advance online publication, Feb. 6, 2002). But it is Wells, in his zeal to criticize any research supporting evolution, whose claims are "exaggerated."

One wonders whether he actually read the paper. For example, the press release states: "William McGinnis at the University of California at San Diego just reported discovering a DNA mutation that produces shrimp without hind legs." He did? If Wells has indeed read the paper, currently published at this site, then he should know that no shrimp were mutated in the production of the research. Further, no mutant shrimp were mentioned in a UCSD press release announcing the Nature paper, which is what Wells apparently relied upon for his critique. Wells appears obsessed by illusory shrimp when he asserts: "The mutation does not transform the embryo into anything like an insect, but only into a disabled shrimp."

As plainly explained in the Nature paper, the research involved inserting the crustacean Ubx gene into a fruit fly, and observing that it did not function as a limb inhibitor (as the fruit fly Ubx gene does). Further, the researchers experimented on the crustacean Ubx gene and specifically isolated the mutations that cause the Ubx gene to become a limb inhibitor. This is exciting research because crustaceans have many pairs of limbs, while insects have just three pairs, and it is the Ubx gene that controls limb development in both. The authors conclude that this shows that specific micromutations can cause large-scale phenotypic effects, thus helping us better to understand the processes that may have been involved in the evolution of the insect body plan and by extension those of other animals as well. Wells's hostility toward the biological fact that genes govern the evolution of new body plans seems to have blinded him to the obvious: There were no mutant shrimp.

Wells wastes a press release on thinly disguised creationist pontifications about research that he apparently could not be bothered to read. Intelligent Design proponents in general have been repeatedly told that if they want to be taken seriously, they must produce scientific research of their own rather than uninformed and irresponsible criticism of the work of real scientists. They claim that Intelligent Design is not just antievolutionism, but Wells's press release is no more than that. We keep waiting for real scientific research to emanate from proponents of Intelligent Design but if Wells's latest effort is any indication, then -- to paraphrase a Russian proverb -- we may be waiting until shrimp begin to whistle.

Contact: Alan D. Gishlick, Post-Doctoral Scholar

February 7, 2002

57 posted on 02/08/2002 6:43:46 AM PST by Karl_Lembke
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To: callisto
One marvels at the illogic of the Creationists as illustrated in the responses of the herein quoted Mr. Wells.

Wells points out, however, that the mutation ... occurs midway through development, after the embryo is already a shrimp. "The mutation does not transform the embryo into anything like an insect, but only into a disabled shrimp. Whatever produced the first insect would have had to transform the embryo from the very beginning."

Huuuhhh??? Lots of traits that are genetically programmed only show up in later development of the organism - like a brain for instance.

Wells adds that critics of Darwinism have never claimed that major mutations result in dead animals, but only in animals that are less fit, and thus likely to be eliminated by natural selection. According to Wells, "this report does nothing to refute that criticism."

The creationists constantly shift the grounds of debate and what is to be demonstrated - and always away from the point that has just been demonstrated to some other point that was not, in the paper at hand an issue. Furthermore this is question begging of the worst kind - the assumption that mutations can only result in animals being less fit - not more fit. But this is patent nonsense. Mutations can produce say, an animal that is more hairy from one that is less hairy as well as as well one that is less hairy rather than more hairy. There is no standard as to whether the animal is less fit, or more fit except to the extent that it must survive in a climate that is warmer or colder than that preferred by its progenitor. The animal that has to survive the artic with the thicker coat will be the happier for it despite the taunts and jeers of the creationists about his unfit deviancy from his god-ordained perfectionist state.

70 posted on 02/09/2002 11:16:44 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: callisto;khepera
Therefore, in conclusion there is mounting 'undeniable evidence' to prove that scientists and evolutionists did in fact evolve from insects, which evolved from ??? If you have any doubts, ask to get something carbon dated...

I did not evolve I was created by God. I have all the evidence I need.

73 posted on 02/28/2002 3:37:52 AM PST by wwjdn
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