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To: Exnihilo
How can you possibly argue that the author does not incorporate Socialsim into his conclusions about Libertarians?

The author CHOOSES to use collectivist values, definitions and worldview in his misguided attempt to debunk Libertarian thought (both large and small 'L'). His whole arguement begins with the presumption that a ruling elite has the authority to direct the resources of society. In the end he concludes that libertarian ideals don't really get perfectly inplemented, and therefore ta-ta-rahhhh we need to have a government that micromanages everyone's lives.

He dismisses the issues discussed in voluminous writings by Classical Liberal authors such as Hayek, Friedman and Von Mises with a wave of his hand, calmly setting up straw-man arguments and briskly knocking them down without addressing the actual issues that have ben widely debated for hundreds of years.

I am hesitant to spend much effort to cite rank and file examples simply because I believe it would do no good. If you truly cared for such you'd read the Road to Serfdom, Capitalism and Freedom, or Human Action yourself and critique them accordingly.

Many here are frustrated with this article because they see the individual as owning themselves and as a consequence of that, owning the fruits of their labor. This is axiomatic to them. A large part of the frustration that we have with you is you are strolling in with an argument that a ruling elite can kill and destroy in order to buy themselves power and create a social picture that they find more pleasing. And that somehow to say otherwise is self contradictory because voluntary co-operation will result in a picture that someone else finds pleasing.

168 posted on 02/01/2002 11:37:52 AM PST by El Sordo
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To: El Sordo
Oh man.. you really crack me up. I own The Road to Serfdom and Capitalism & Freedom, and I love and agree with both of them. Hayek and Friedman are brilliant. I also enjoy Bastiat and De Tocqueville. So what? Does that mean I can't also be a Russell Kirk Conservative? Of course not. Again, I never- and I repeat never- said that I agreed with everything, or even most of what the author said. Some have claimed an invisible rule that one is not allowed to post anything unless he or she is willing to defend every shred of the post. That's a joke, and I feel no reason to follow it. I agree with his claims that Libertarianism is inherantly contradictory, and I agree with the image/reality table he laid out. Other than that, I posted this to stimulate debate, and that it did! I love how angry the Libertarians get when someone dares to challenge them. It's really just a fun time for me because I know that trying to discuss anything with a Libertarian is like talking to a brick wall. They are right, and if you disagree, you are wrong and that's all there is to it. It's amusing really.
190 posted on 02/01/2002 11:45:57 AM PST by Exnihilo
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