Why Is Libertarianism Wrong?

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/libertarian.html ^

[palo verde]

lol
I don't understand arguing 'bout these things
we live in a democracy
people vote in who they want
my personal hunch is that the tide of liberalism is over -- history has moved on
and the new craving is for liberty
how this new craving will be expressed in the body politic, I don't know
but one way or nother, it's bound to be
Love, Palo

[palo verde]

hi malador
I find your posts sensible
(my prayers are in for your dad too)
Love, Palo

[Cultural Jihad]

Ex> Most libertarians support competitive interaction in a Darwinist form - Darwinist in the sense that some entities may disappear, in the process of competition.

Jh>Well, with respect to their showing in the polls.. I guess Darwin won.

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"There the people go. I am their leader. I must hasten after them!"

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[Jhoffa_]

Kind of shoots that theory full of holes, doesn't it?

:)

[Cultural Jihad]

and the new craving is for liberty

Such as the liberty of people to again decide what kind of a society they are to live in?
Such as liberty of children to their own innocence?

[Tall_Texan]

**Libertarians are the only true patriots left in our republic, yet we get vile slander and abuse from those that give lip service to the same cause.**

WAAAAAAAH! We're the only TRUE Americans and nobody likes us!! WAAAAAH!!

Your comment is an insult to every man and woman that is actually putting their lives on the line in defense of this country, home and abroad, while YOU sit on your whiny ass and complain that you're a victim. PUH-LEASE!!

It is for such comments that you libertarians and your elitist, arrogant "we're the only true patriots" "we're the only consistent philosophy" bull&$%# are attacked.

Face it, you're a 1% party and, if you weren't advocating drugs for everyone, you wouldn't be 1/3rd of that.

[£inuxgruven]

Well for being only 1% the 'tarians sure have done a good job riling up folks like you. And you have it wrong, If the libertarians were not consistent in their respect for the constitution when it concerns the bogus "drug threat" (you've been attacked by plants before HAVEN'T YOU) they would probably have 10%, maybe more, at least enough to be included in the "debates". Sleep tight "big guy"

[The_Reader_David]

I think you'll find that the Church never became a place. We Orthodox build very grand edificies in which to hold our Liturgies, but the hut which St. Herman of Alaska made into a temple by blessing it, setting up a few Holy Icons, and laying a cloth blessed by his bishop on a rude wooden table (or for that matter the intermittently existing temple which the Mission I serve sets up and takes down in rented space for each Liturgy) are quite suitable, and when the faithful gather are the Church in that place.

[palo verde]

hi malador
thanks for bein' a friend when I was badgered on that political thread a few weeks back
you took some of the heat off me, by having it fall on you lol
you helped me
I went to the Native American store here in Tucson and bought myself a badger fetish a few days later
(I figure I earned it)
it's a Zuni carving in black stone with turquoise eyes
sittin' on my desk now
he is quite handsome
my prayers are in for your dad
and my intuition says he'll be fine
so keep your hopes up
Love, Palo

[Tall_Texan]

Then why don't you take up arms to overthrow the government instead of whining like a little baby that you're the "only true patriots"? I'd respect far more someone willing to die for a cause than someone who simply stamps their feet and pretends to be "more patriotic than thou".

You simply prove my previous point. Elitist and arrogant.

[Exnihilo]

As with religions, in politics, there is no right or wrong.

You actually believe this crap???? Wow.

[steve-b]

Using Southack's argument, the sight of Bill Clinton in a blue three-piece suit (instead of an orange jumpsuit) proves that there are no laws against perjury.

[A.J.Armitage]

Good one.

[L,TOWM]

OK, I will try this ONE MORE TIME. I will stick to small words so that my thoughts may not cause your head to hurt. When the church went from an out of the mainstream (oooops two syllables, bear with me) MOVEMENT AND LIFESTYLE, something that people of faith did, despite being being turned into lion chow for it, into what HAD to be done for wealth, status, power, and privledge, it polluted the spiritual with the worldly.

Not a hard point to grasp is it?
Church = People of faith, on edge of society = What Jesus Did.
Church = All kinds of people, even those putting on a show for status = What Jesus Preached AGAINST.

Sorry if I seem rude, but after two posts I expect people on this forum to grasp fairly simple concepts. Of course, in any age, a remnant exists. If you are ever in LA, look me up. I'll take you to some wonderful worship and first class preacing in a building which began as a BOWLING ALLEY.

[decimon]

It's not really about Libertarians; it's about us Conservatives.

Bingo!

[The_Reader_David]

If you think the Church should still be on the edge, try the Church: we Orthodox (who confess our communion to be indeed the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ in the Gift of the Holy Spirit to His Holy Apostles on the day of Pentecost) are quite out of the mainstream--we fast, confess our sins, use a different calendar than the rest of the world, use bows and gestures to try to get even our bodies to participate in the worship of God. We still have the mechanism Christians developped for staying on the edge when the Church ceased to be persecuted: monasticism. Indeed most of our spiritual tradition, even for ordinary laymen, is shaped by monasticism. One Sunday during Great Lent is devoted to St. John Climacus, whose notable contribution to the faith is a book "The Ladder of Divine Ascent" whose whole purpose is to instruct the reader in the kind of living in the world while not being of the world you seem to yearn for. Another Sunday of Great Lent holds up as an example of repentence St. Mary of Egypt, who abandoned the world in penance for her former life as a nymphomanical prostitute, and lived as a hermit in the desert. We have a whole class of saints venerated as "Fools-for-Christ" whom society at large saw as going over the edge, but whom the Church sees as exemplars of the Life in Christ.

I think you really need to go back to see what the Church actually looked like after the Peace of Constantine, rather than relying on protestant critiques of Rome's later abuses which accept the false papal claim to have been the head of the Church and use it to read the later abuses back to the time when the persecutions ceased.

[L,TOWM]

I'll pass. I prefer to be with Mike Comfort and Greg Koukl on the Santa Monica Boardwalk on Friday nights, evangelizing, offering "apologea" for the hope that we have, with gentleness and respect.

holds up as an example of repentence St. Mary of Egypt, who abandoned the world in penance, ... and lived as a hermit in the desert.Two observations. One, did she believe that Christ's atonement and her rebirth into a new woman that would "go and sin no more", were not sufficient? Two, how did that satisfy the Great Commission? Maybe its just me, but were I in a position to offer a suggestion, perhaps a greater service to the Lord would have been preaching the Gospel to her fellow "Ladies of the evening" and her "Johns". But, that's just me.

he mechanism Christians developped for staying on the edge when the Church ceased to be persecuted: monasticism

Must be tough to win souls when you are avoiding them. There are two signs on the way into my converted Bowling Alley churh building: "Give 'em Heaven" and "Win, Equip, Send". I'm not too sure if Win, Equip, Hide was what we were supposed to do.

BTW, I am sorry if I was overly rude in my prior post; that was inexcusable of me. I am sure that we will meet in New Jerusalem, since you do have a bold faith in our Redeemer. Then, we will, perhaps hear that both of us were right, just diferrently shaped stones, or that neither of us "got it". :-)