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A Philosophy Of Morality
Sierra Times ^ | Deborah Venable

Posted on 02/01/2002 7:13:38 AM PST by Sir Gawain

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To: Pistias
Applying that knowledge

That's probably where I draw the line. |

It would be a vertical line. On one side, the left side, philosophy, on the other side, politics.

As an example, I have some background in both physics and engineering. Physics would be a subset of philosophy, engineering would be practical, worldly application. Physics would be on the left side of the line, engineering on the right side.

And similarly with a philosophy of morality [and ethics.] Ethics on the left of the line; politics, political engineering, on the right.

Clinton X-42, being a journeyman political engineer would exist on the right. Oh, well, it's just a diagram.

81 posted on 02/07/2002 1:03:35 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: headsonpikes
There are many many folks who are totally undeterred by the prospect of doing something 'wrong'.

This is why we put them in jail.

We must limit their power to do wrong by restricting the purview of governmental authority; there is no other way.

So you want less things to be considered "Wrong".

They will unrelentingly pursue their own interests despite your or my 'moral suasion'.

Let them do so from the privacy of their own cell.

82 posted on 02/07/2002 1:04:56 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Pistias
I think we agree...pride cometh before a fall, indeed. And we are nothing if not a proud nation, I should think.

Indeed - a proud species.

Shalom.

83 posted on 02/07/2002 1:05:33 PM PST by ArGee
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: RightWhale
Physics would be a subset of philosophy, engineering would be practical, worldly application.

I like the way you think. But I must say, an engineer who knows too little of physics is a poor engineer, and will build a defective bridge. Indeed, it seems the engineer would be constantly returning to his laws of physics to understand how to get where he wants. If there is a single flaw in the analogy, I think it is this, however: physics tells you that if you use this material this high, it will feel this much force from gravitation and be able to flex this much and so on...but philosophy would be concerned with why you were building the bridge in the first place.

85 posted on 02/07/2002 1:08:22 PM PST by Pistias
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To: RightWhale
The implicit idea in your post seems to be that one shouldn't influence the other to an excessive extent. "Force or fraud" is not reliably demonstrated by the analogy to be that point, at least to me. Would you care to elaborate, or have I pegged you wrong, or both?
86 posted on 02/07/2002 1:11:15 PM PST by Pistias
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To: ArGee
Had Adam and Eve simply been satisfied to receive the Wisdom that comes from G-d the world would not have fallen.

Indeed. Moreover, they would not have been human.

On a related note, if my 18-year-old son would be satisfied to receive the wisdom of my 41 years, he would not have to suffer the results of so many stupid mistakes.

My congratulations to your human son.
87 posted on 02/07/2002 1:13:44 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: Pistias
You misunderstand me, sir.

I was speaking not of the common law 'wrongs' of assault, theft, etc., but of the politically-engineered crimes executed by shaping the varius bodies of administrative and other laws to further 'private interest'.

The so-called 'War on Drugs', for instance, is only explicable by acknowledging the power of criminal syndicates and other profiteers of human misery to warp the law for private benefit.

88 posted on 02/07/2002 1:24:30 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: Khepera
"That is why we put them in jail."

LOL!!!

I would have thought even someone as monomaniacal as yourself would have perceived that I was speaking of political crimes against the American people and their Constitution.

Name one political criminal,(Clinton is one, there are innumerable others), who now languish in the crowbar hotel.

One.(1)

89 posted on 02/07/2002 1:29:10 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: headsonpikes
My apolgies. I see you're forcing me to stand on sticky ground with unsure footing all about if I'm to defend the WOD...which I will not claim to do, nor do I wish to. I feel it has a value, but it places us in a situation of stepping in sh!t with either foot, so to speak: power such as that can't be safely trusted with goverment (it will tend to grow beyond its limits if it has not with with the simple fact of allotting it such power), but turning a blind eye to men of the body social polluting themselves is likewise unacceptable (it will tend to make them unfit for living in a free regime if it does not simply in the instance of use among certain chemicals). These things were certainly much less of a problem when they were taken care of by social mores, but that is no longer the case. Plato's Socrates traced the root of the fall of all regimes to disunity about what good, better, and best is arising from the limitations of human reason and memory, and I think he has a point.

And you need not call me sir (though I appreciate it!). I'm willing to bet I'm several years your junior, sir.

90 posted on 02/07/2002 1:37:17 PM PST by Pistias
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To: Pistias
one shouldn't influence the other to an excessive extent

They will, though. Once you realize what you are looking at, whether it is to the left or right of the line, or even straddling the line, you can begin to link it all together. Then it becomes one. At the same time it becomes neither philosophy nor politics.

It might seem odd for a Republican, which I am, to have an interest in the doings of Mao. And I don't like what he did. But, he did take a philosophy, Marxism, and join it to practical politics in a way nobody else has done. He was wrong to use coercion, but it was effective, unfortunately. He failed completely, of course, as coercion seems to utterly fail in the end.

We are each independent creatures and must each come to our own realization as we become aware of the paradox of life. Probably most people don't get that far and just follow the recipe given them by their leader. Like engineering. Follow the herd, do this and you get that. Sounds like OBL. Sounds like some others I won't mention since I don't particularly want to start a riot.

91 posted on 02/07/2002 1:38:20 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
We are each independent creatures

To an extent we are also dependent creatures who live with and need one another (and not just for division of labor).

Probably most people don't get that far and just follow the recipe given them by their leader. Like engineering. Follow the herd, do this and you get that

Sadly, yes. The easy road is the one well-travelled.

I don't particularly want to start a riot

LOL--wisdom is nine parts prudence and one part good sense, as they say.

92 posted on 02/07/2002 1:45:57 PM PST by Pistias
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To: Pistias
No sir for you, pup! LOL!

When people post in a thoughtful way, I feel bound to observe proprieties. ;^)

I believe the 'social mores' are much more 'enforcable' than you might think on first glance. My impression of my contemporaries, however, is that they are uncomfortable taking a 'judgmental' stand, unless it is fully backed up by the force of law and public unanimity.

This is the fruit of decadence; an intimidated citizenry makes a mockery of popular sovereignty.

To preserve the Constitution and the principles upon which it stands will take a considerable quantity of moral courage; we shall see if we possess it or not in the years to come.

93 posted on 02/07/2002 2:11:49 PM PST by headsonpikes
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Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: lexcorp;OWK;nexuslexus
"headsonpikes" said...Frankly, neither of you is amusing enough to spar with.

You call the crap you've put on this thread sparring? You're a true leftist. I know, I know, you're proud of that title. Actually, from reading your posts....you're irrelevant.

"OWK" said...Where (post #31).

I thought, from yesterday's thread, you were someone worthy of my time. Sorry, you too are irrelevant.

lexcorp, you've said so many insane things you're beyond help. You indeed, are going to have A LOT TO ANSWER for when you meet your Maker.

nexuslexus, poof, you're gone. You too, will be in big doodoo when you fall on your face before God.

Incredible, the mindset of the left. Actually, it really isn't....for those of us who know Jesus as our Lord and Savior are not at all surprised by this.

You folks are really, really sick, indeed.

95 posted on 02/07/2002 2:34:28 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma
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To: Brad's Gramma
"You're a true leftist."

LOL!! I sincerely hope young Brad has more sense than his 'gramma', a woman who is apparently incapable of complex thought.

He could hardly have less, I suppose.

BTW, if you're going to slag me, please flag me. It's the 'ethical' thing to do; surely even a 'whited sepulchre' can remember the small courtesies.

96 posted on 02/07/2002 2:42:19 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: headsonpikes
BTW, if you're going to slag me, please flag me.

My mistake, I thought I had.

97 posted on 02/07/2002 2:46:52 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma
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Comment #98 Removed by Moderator

To: lexcorp;nexuslexus
"All of that is so, except... the only ones teaching that prayer is not allowed in school are the religious conservatives, not the loony leftist socialists. The simple fact is that nowhere in America is prayer in school disallowed, or has that concept even been suggested.

This is true. Don't expect many here to believe it though. They have been told this so many times by "moral" people that wish to divide (and the Please Send More Money To Me For Jesus To Protect Us From This Travesty! hucksters) -- they are absolutely convinced it is so.

You are mistaken on this point, as you will discover by clicking here to learn of one recent incident.

From schools that have tried to ban Christian Fellowship clubs on school property(while encouraging gay teen clubs) to banning valedictorian speeches with christian content, the incidents are common.

You may fancy yourself a liberal and you don't want to ban prayer -- that doesn't mean that those with whom you are allied share your tolerance and moderation.

99 posted on 02/07/2002 3:09:50 PM PST by Yeti
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To: lexcorp;Brad's Gramma
lexcorp: Showing you anything would be Pearls before Swine.
100 posted on 02/07/2002 3:18:12 PM PST by homeschool mama
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