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A Philosophy Of Morality
Sierra Times ^ | Deborah Venable

Posted on 02/01/2002 7:13:38 AM PST by Sir Gawain

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To: lexcorp
And why must the 5 year old say grace silently? To whom is the child giving offense? Saying grace isn't talking to anyone but God, so, why is this even an issue?
41 posted on 02/07/2002 10:55:54 AM PST by rdb3
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To: FreeTally
Uhhh, without the electro-chemical reaction, there would be no "love", and thus the reality of something not experienced would be impossible to debate.

Interesting point. Totally wrong, but interesting.

You're presuming that humanity is only material. Humanity is both material and spiritual. Love is spiritual. There may be an electro-chemical manifestation of it, but love is no more the electro-chemical manifestation of love than you are the physical manifestation of you.

You aren't, you know. Your body isn't the same one that it was 10 days ago. Many of the cells have been replaced. All of the cells will be replaced every 7 years. Assuming you are over 14, you are on your third completely different physical manifestation. Yet you are still you.

If you want to know Truth, you are going to have to step outside the limits of the material.

Shalom.

42 posted on 02/07/2002 10:58:46 AM PST by ArGee
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To: J.R.R. Tolkien;khepera
Every society must have a True North. That True North is either comprised of a) moral values and ethical principles, or of b) power centers and politically favored groups.

I agree with you... nice way to show the PC view...politically favored groups with no morality concerns.

43 posted on 02/07/2002 11:00:33 AM PST by wwjdn
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To: J.R.R. Tolkien
Every society must have a True North. That True North is either comprised of a) moral values and ethical principles, or of b) power centers and politically favored groups. When it comes to picking a set to write into law. I prefer set "a)", as did the framers of our United States Constitution.

Not to mention that writing "b)" into law is like posting a lantern at the top of the mast and then navigating according to that lantern.

Shalom.

44 posted on 02/07/2002 11:03:03 AM PST by ArGee
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To: Sir Gawain
bump for later
45 posted on 02/07/2002 11:04:12 AM PST by ThJ1800
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To: Sir Gawain
political philosophy

That's the problem with the article. There is no such thing. It's an oxymoron. Like military intelligence.

46 posted on 02/07/2002 11:04:25 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: ArGee
What we need to do is ignore them and stand on what we know. Most people won't accept this narrow definition of truth. They know which moral values are right and which are wrong. People like you and me just need to give them permission to give voice to what they know - no matter how loudly the adherants of Scientism try to shout us down.

I stand with you on this, ArGee. I couldn't agree more, and will act accordingly.

47 posted on 02/07/2002 11:09:51 AM PST by rdb3
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: lexcorp
then there is no need for the spiritualism hypothesis... and no evidence.

It's not a hypothesis, it's a reality.

But you're stuck in your materialistic mode so you can't apprend the reality.

That doesn't make the reality any less, just you. But the very same you, even if you lose some brain cells.

Shalom.

50 posted on 02/07/2002 11:50:30 AM PST by ArGee
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: ArGee;wwjdn;J.R.R. Tolkien;spookbrat;jmj333;eodguy;brad's gramma;dakmar; fiddlstix;Tourist Guy...
Wonderful ideas that I first saw presented on Greg Koukl's website ArGee. (no doubt these ideas are represented in many places) I knew you would have a thoughtful response.

It seems that more and more our leaders are devoid of moral directions to use as foundations when making laws. This bodes ill for the future of this country. I am amazed at how many Christians feel it is ok to support these politicians. The churches hands are further tied with agreements with the IRS which limit their speech even within the very walls of the church.

It is the lack of morality polluting our society to a point where no one will be safe to live a moral life. In fact if left to continue the idea of right and wrong will be non existent and no compass will be able to determine the way north.

Obviously many so called conservatives and Christians alike will in fact be no different from the most liberal and morally corrupt among us. They will no longer have the capability to discern Good and Evil, Right and Wrong. All it seems to take is a crowd of hyenas to heckle and bay at the moon. and those who stand by and say nothing.

They are rewriting our history and our Bibles and convincing us that it is only a wafer thin morsel as they shove it down our throats. Soon that wafer given in communion to their gods and not ours will choke us as we are not willful enough to resist the lies for the truth.

52 posted on 02/07/2002 11:56:04 AM PST by Khepera
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To: lexcorp
If it's a reality, prove it.

How do you prove color to the blind? How do you prove sound to the deaf? How do you prove mathematics to the imbecile?

How do you prove spirituality to someone who is spiritually dead?

I need no proof. You are incapable of receiving proof. So why are you wasting bandwidth?

When you break out of your material box and decide you want to know more - not just drop a waste of a challenge by someone who knows better than to take it - you won't need to ask me for proof.

Shalom.

53 posted on 02/07/2002 12:01:36 PM PST by ArGee
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To: lexcorp
need no proof = need no more proof

Sorry.

Shalom.

54 posted on 02/07/2002 12:02:42 PM PST by ArGee
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To: headsonpikes
In fact, laws are built the old-fashioned way, on a foundation of 'interest'.

What if it's in my interest and within my capacity to break laws without punishment? Why would I abide by them unless keeping my word or the act of the lawbreaking was in some way wrong?

55 posted on 02/07/2002 12:05:47 PM PST by Pistias
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To: Khepera
They will no longer have the capability to discern Good and Evil, Right and Wrong.

It's not so much about ability as it is about willingness, although after a while our consciences become seared.

When Adam and Eve were told not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they already knew what was good and what was evil. Their definition was, "What G-d pronounces good = good" and "What G-d pronounces evil = evil." If you know anything about imagery (and I'm not claiming that the story of Genesis 2 is only imagery) then you know that, "the fruit of," is an image for, "the result of," as in, "the fruit of his folly was poverty."

The "fruit of the tree" was the belief that Adam and Eve were sufficiently reasonable and knowledgeable to make up their own minds about what is good and what is evil without needing any help from G-d.

Just like OWK et. al.

But, in order to think that, you really have to have an overinflated opinion of your own ability to reason and your own storehouse of knowledge.

Had Adam and Eve simply been satisfied to receive the Wisdom that comes from G-d the world would not have fallen.

On a related note, if my 18-year-old son would be satisfied to receive the wisdom of my 41 years, he would not have to suffer the results of so many stupid mistakes. G-d's wisdom and experience are much farther above any man's than mine are above my son's, but the analogy is fitting.

Shalom.

56 posted on 02/07/2002 12:09:19 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
You're presuming that humanity is only material. Humanity is both material and spiritual. Love is spiritual. There may be an electro-chemical manifestation of it, but love is no more the electro-chemical manifestation of love than you are the physical manifestation of you.

FACT: There is electro-chemical reactions that create the emotional feelings that man has labeled "love". Because this is something that most people will only see presented on the likes of The Discovery Channel and the like, and given that this has only been discovered in the latter half of the last century, man convinces himself of things such as "meant to be", "the love of my life" and such. A "spiratual love" is much different, and is hard to define or actually "put your finger on it". Our love for God(if one believes that) is spiratual, obviously, because there is no actual entity similar to a person who can illicit the same types of responses as in "scientific love". Every individual will see "spiratual love" differently, while some may not even believe in it.

57 posted on 02/07/2002 12:16:42 PM PST by FreeTally
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To: FreeTally
FACT: There is electro-chemical reactions that create the emotional feelings that man has labeled "love".

FACT: Somebody in a lab has mapped a brainwave pattern to be common among people who are claiming to be "in love."

Additional FACT: That brainwave pattern has nothing to do with why I am still married to my wife after 20 years, and more in love than I was 20 years ago.

Additional FACT: People knew what love was long before any squiggles ever appeared on a scope that monitored brainwaves. The brainwave monitor doesn't create the love, nor do the waves.

Both may be evidence of an emotion, but neither is the cause.

But you need to open the eyes of your spirit to know this. If you trap yourself in your materialist box you will never know it. Blind men can't know color. Deaf men can't know sound. The spritually dead can't know love.

But they can amuse themselves by reading brainwave monitors and claiming they know FACTs.

Shlaom.

58 posted on 02/07/2002 12:20:35 PM PST by ArGee
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To: RightWhale
Interesting interpretation. Wrong, but interesting nonetheless.
59 posted on 02/07/2002 12:26:12 PM PST by Pistias
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To: ArGee
The "fruit of the tree" was the belief that Adam and Eve were sufficiently reasonable and knowledgeable to make up their own minds about what is good and what is evil without needing any help from G-d.

Makes one wonder as to the goodness of philosophy.

60 posted on 02/07/2002 12:28:13 PM PST by Pistias
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