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To: WhiskeyPapa
"Thirdly, the supremacy clause of the Constitution prohibits secession."

Actually what it means is that any law - federal or state - that is contradictory to the Constitution is null and void. Which leaves you again looking at amendments 9 & 10.

"If a state could unilaterally withdraw from the Union, then supremacy would rest with each state, respectively - not with the Constitution and the laws made pursuant to it. As the Constituion expressly declares the Constitution to be the Supreme Law of the land, any act that denies this supremacy (e.g., unilateral withdrawl) must be unconstitutional."

Gee Wally Walt, are you a supreme court justice now too?

"...and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
US Constitution, Article V.

Nothing in there about forcing a state to be represented - in fact it states exactly the opposite. A state, if it so desires, can divest itself of representation. And the obverse is true, a state can't be forced to participate.

"[I]t is especially refreshing after bashing through the crap that appears on these confederate apolgist [sic] threads."

And you're the one spreading the manure.

78 posted on 01/31/2002 12:12:34 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Nothing in there about forcing a state to be represented - in fact it states exactly the opposite. A state, if it so desires, can divest itself of representation. And the obverse is true, a state can't be forced to participate.

Not according to James Madison:

"But if the powers be attributes of sovereignty & nationality & the grant of them be perpetual, as is necessarily implied, where not otherwise expressed, sovereignty & nationality are effectually transferred by it, and the dispute about the name, is but a battle of words. The practical result is not indeed left to argument or inference. The words of the Constitution are explicit that the Constitution & laws of the U. S. shall be supreme over the Constitution and laws of the several States; supreme in their exposition and execution as well as in their authority. Without a supremacy in those respects it would be like a scabbard in the hands of a soldier without a sword in it. The imagination itself is startled at the idea of twenty four independent expounders of a rule that cannot exist, but in a meaning and operation, the same for all."

The Supremacy Clause forbids a state to leave. Their laws and ordnances may NOT be supreme over those of the United States.

Don't forget that the power to act for the common defence and general welfare are assigned to the Congress. The 9th and 10th amendments cannot reserve a power to the states that would be inimical to the common defense and general welfare. This is just another manifestation of how reliance on the 9th and 10th amendments will not prove a right to secession.

There is no right to legal unilateral secession under U.S. law and no amount of bleating will bring one about.

Walt

80 posted on 01/31/2002 12:38:01 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Nothing in there about forcing a state to be represented - in fact it states exactly the opposite. A state, if it so desires, can divest itself of representation. And the obverse is true, a state can't be forced to participate.

"[I]t is especially refreshing after bashing through the crap that appears on these confederate apolgist [sic] threads."

And you're the one spreading the manure.

Perhaps you should heed the words of a very wise man.

"Here, perhaps, I ought to stop. But a solicitude for your welfare, which cannot end but with my life, and the apprehension of danger, natural to that solicitude, urge me on an occasion like the present, to offer to your solemn contemplation, and to recommend to your frequent review, some sentiments; which are the result of much reflection, of no inconsiderable observation, and which appear to me all important to the permanency of your felicity as a People.

These will be offered to you with the more freedom as you can only see in them the disinterested warnings of a parting friend, who can possibly have no personal motive to biass his counsel. Nor can I forget, as an encouragement to it, your endulgent reception of my sentiments on a former and not dissimilar occasion.

Interwoven as is the love of liberty with every ligament of your hearts, no recommendation of mine is necessary to fortify or confirm the Attachment.

The Unity of Government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main Pillar in the Edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home; your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that from different causes & from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal & external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly & insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective & individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual & immoveable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion that it can in any event be abandoned, and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our Country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts.

For this you have every inducement of sympathy and interest. Citizens by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations...."

--George Washington, Farewell Address

Walt

81 posted on 01/31/2002 12:53:21 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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