Not Yours to Give

personal archives ^ | Provided as courtesy by Charles Starr for Congress

[RonDog]

I'm getting bug eyed reading this stuff. :-)

Me, too!!! LOL!!!

Time to take a break, and watch the President's State of the Union speech.

[michigander]

Time to take a break, and watch the President's State of the Union speech.

Oh, that's right! Thanks for the reminder!!!

[higgmeister]

Bump Congressman Crockett!

I donated money to the WTC victims!
My government forcing me to do it is a crime against nature!

[Huck]

I think you both may be slowly losing your grip on reality! Seriously, the only mitigating circumstances I can find for the firewood is that they already had the wood, which, at least in one case, was said to be "rotting". Crockett might have thought it OK to give away wood which would go to waste. Or, since the wood giveaways affected "residents" of the "city, the district, that the Congress actually did possess Constitutional powers broad enough to authorize the donation of wood. Any thoughts on those ideas? (not that we have any documents to back it up--go ahead RonDog, I dare you!)

[RonDog]

I think you both may be slowly losing your grip on reality!

LOL!!! You got THAT right! (At least in MY case. I cannot speak for our FRiend, michigander.)

I never did understand that firewood stuff. ;)

Please give me a short review of what happened, and when. Thanks!

[Huck]

All I know about the firewood is in post #140. Crockett voted to provide gubmint wood to the city's poor. This was in 1831, which would be after any "conversion" we could come up with. I think that's what michigander was saying. According to my recollection of the record (which I posted), there was a rough storm in the Capital, and the House had excess firewood. I don't have the quote handy, but I recall the wood being described as "rotting." It was proposed that this excess wood be given to the poor, who were burning anything they could find. Crockett voted yea.

So, it seems to me there are at least 3 choices:

1. The "conversion" never took place-- I don't believe this is the correct choice. We have found that he did offer to pay out of pocket and voted against the bills for relief of widows. At least in some cases, he believed what the Ellis tale says he believed.

2. He viewed the donation of firewood as constitutional--We have nothing to back this up, but it is possible. By the 1830s, the question of Congressional power regarding the district had been thoroughly debated, because the anti-slavery forces in the Congress wished to exert the Constitutional authority to ban slavery in the district. Scores of petitions calling for such an action were submitted to the House routinely. So, the fabled Bunce might have no objection to charity which was constitutionally permissable, if such a case existed. According to the Congressional power in the district, that may have been Crockett's view.

3. Crockett was inconsistent-- entirely likely. In the winter of 1831, he may have simply forgotten the principle of Mr. Bunce. Maybe the old woodsman in him wanted to share wood with his fellow man, as he would have done out in the Kentucky woods.

I believe that enough information has been uncovered to confirm a lot of truth in the essence of the Ellis tale, even though almost every fact as been altered. I also like your theory on Samual Bunch. That was an outstanding contribution, IMO.

[RonDog]

I also like your theory on Samual Bunch. That was an outstanding contribution, IMO.

Thanks!

And thanks for your "firewood" update.
This appears to be a LONG TERM project, but I know of no OTHERS who are doing so... Just FReepers. ;)

Perhaps we can find some ACADEMIC- or HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION-types, or "David Crockett fan clubs" to help.

FWIW, here is an e-mail that I received from Jon Roland - from post #111:

"I have not personally verified the source, and commend you for your efforts to do so.
Let me know what you find.

As I understand it, the report we have originally appeared in a newspaper of the time, so may be historically inaccurate as newspaper articles often are.

--Jon

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Constitution Society, 7301 RR 620 N #155,276, Austin, TX 78726
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Date: 01/29/02 Time: 18:47:01

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Who wants to HELP find and contact these potential David Crockett/"Not Yours to Give" experts?

[DLfromthedesert]

Personally, I don't care whether Davy Crockett made this statement. The sentiment is exactly correct.
I wish someone would say it to our President and Congress.

[wattsmag2]

Or, if the wood was rotting.

4) It was an easy way to get the rotten wood out of there without public expense.

[wattsmag2]

Now, if we might only find a way to get the "dead rotten wood" out of the Congress once again...

[Huck]

Good one.

[Huck]

Buy your own copy of the Edward Ellis Book, The Life of Davy Crockett.

Scroll down a little. It's the second book. I just ordered the whole "Texas Trilogy". They are real spiffy looking reprints. $18.00 a piece.

[RonDog]

Thanks for the link, Huck! It looks like a great addition to MY library, too.

The Life of Colonel Davy Crockett (Texas Trilogy 3)

Code: CROCKETT
Price: $18.00

This is the third book in the Texas Trilogy by Edward Ellis.
Davy Crockett's life and his participation in fighting
for Texas' independence at the Alamo are part of this book.
The cover on The Life of Davy Crockett is beautifully crafted
and engraved to look and feel like leather.

[RonDog]

Here is an e-mail that I sent to:

Michael A. Lofaro, Professor, Department of English, The University of Tennessee, Knoxville,
and his response back to me:

Hi, Dr. Lofaro - Perhaps you (or some of your graduate students) can help us.

Some of the members of the conservative news forum www.FreeRepublic.com are currently attempting to establish the FACTS behind the classic "Not Yours to Give" article which has been widely circulated over the Internet, in a discussion thread at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/614198/posts?page=125#125

Our general consensus to date is that David Crockett DID in fact vote against allocating federal funds for the widow of a popular military officer, and MAY have had a political mentor similar to the man identified in the article as "Horatio Bunce," although he was almost certainly NOT in Congress when they voted to provide aid to the sufferers of the tragic fire in the District of Columbia.

You seem to be very well-informed about Colonel Crockett.
What is YOUR opinion about "Not Yours to Give?"

Thank you,

my real name (posting as RonDog, on Free Republic)

---

Dear my real name,

I haven't worked on this question, but will try to point you to some helpful sources.

I'd start with the Shackford biography of Crockett. It's old, but generally reliable on non--death at the Alamo issues. That will also provide a bibliography and notes that may generate further leads. Another bibliography is Miles Tanenbaum's "Following Davy's Trail" in Crockett at Two Hundred.

The issue of his votes should be something that could be determined from the records of the House and the dates of his service (elected in 1827, 1829, 1833).

Hope this helps. Good luck with your inquiry.

Sincerely,

Michael A. Lofaro

[RonDog]

From www.amazon.com:

David Crockett : The Man and the Legend
by James Atkins Shackford, John B. Shackford (Editor), Michael A. Lofaro (Introduction)

List Price: $17.95
Our Price: $17.95
Used Price: $9.95

and from www.greystonehistory.com:

David Crockett: The Man & The Legend
by James Shackford, et al. Davy Crockett has been America's best-known folk hero for at least 160 years. This informed biography first appeared in 1956, at the height of the television-inspired Crockett craze. As noted in the introduction, 'Shackford faced the monumental task of rescuing a nearly unknown David Crockett from the obscurity caused by the popularity of the earlier legendary Davys and deepened by Disney.'

[Huck]

Dude,

You are en fuego!

[Huck]

Did you notice that Michael A. Lofaro wrote the introduction for the Hackford book? What's interesting is that Lofaro wrote several books about Crockett, but didn't recommend them!

Anyway, I ordered the Ellis book today, and I have three books waiting for me at the library. Now I have to get this one I guess.

[Paulus Invictus]

Would Davy have approved of the billions in Federal cash given to the families of the 9/11 disaster? (No flames please, it's just a question).

[Chapita]

It sort of confuses me why you ask such a question, but, anyhow, my answer would be NO!

[RonDog]

Did you notice that Michael A. Lofaro wrote the introduction for the Hackford book?

You bet! I found him from an EXCELLENT article on Crockett that he wrote here:

The Texas State Historical Association - Handbook of Texas Online

---

What's interesting is that Lofaro wrote several books about Crockett, but didn't recommend them!

I noticed that, too. Not sure how much (if any) of our thread that he read here, but he AT LEAST read my e-mail, and did not seem to recognize any of the salient points in this story, and he is a MAJOR Crockett scholar. (I do not feel as bad for not knowing about the particulars of the "Not Yours to Give" story, if HE does not know about them either!)

FWIW, the answer must NOT be in any of the books that HE wrote, or he would know about it - you would think... ;)