Posted on 01/11/2002 3:20:52 PM PST by GMMAC
Heh heh. Nice try. Touched a nerve? Did I? You've only confirmed my suspicions as to where the hatred really lies.
FYI, I've been active in these issues for over five years. Married fourteen years and counting to the same loving wife - mother of my son - who shares my views on men's issues (even moreso, now that we have a son) and would be appalled at anyone who would be so cold and callous as to classify the saddest and sorriest act of desperation as "hatred."
—————————— Dorothy Parker (1893-1967)
Hey! Don't knock it! I proposed by sticking a CO2 pistol in my ear and shooting!
(She said yes)
God have mercy on those who lose that voice. Call them "hateful" if you will, but as why, WHY, is this sick sad tradgedy on the increase among men and boys? I suspect that the voice abandons one at the same time as hope and love.
It has nothing to do with whether one loves their children or not. It is usually the result of deep depression in which the individual loses all hope for what they desire most and cannot see that the future can be different. When a person doesn't have a deep faith in God and knows that he will enjoy eternal life with Him, it much more likely that someone in a traumatic situation could decide life isn't worth living. Suicide is much more about self-hatred than anything else.
In this particular case, the guy's statement that the courts caused (I would say contributed towards) him to commit suicide certainly has some merit.
Better yet, get involved in helping to repeal no-fault divorce laws. These laws were enacted by the divorce industry that now profits from the assets of families involved in the divorce mill. No-fault is unconstitutional in its very application. There is absolutely no other situation where you can be deprived of your assets and children without ever having been accused of a crime and without ever being able to speak a single word in your own defense. The most vile criminal has more rights afforded them than the person who has been served with divorce papers for a no-fault divorce.
As men and women we should honor our committments to our families and should be held to those committments. Government has no business involving themselves in our families. The party who wants out without cause should be forced to forfeit everything accumulated during the marriage, including the kids.
Groups like SmartMarriages and Amerians for Divorce Reform are working towards that end. Look into it.
Exactly.
What many people don't understand is that these fathers DO FIGHT, often for many YEARS, and all they end up with is the "priviledge" of paying the woman's legal bills on top of his own and paying the woman "child support" that often exceeds his take-home pay.
I worked in Family "Law" for 12 years, I have seen what the courts will do to a man that wants nothing more than to be in his childrens' lives. It is pathetic, and the feminazis MUST BE STOPPED!
More than likely they didn't have a "daddy" when he was alive either. The courts literally exile a father from his children. MANY, MANY GOOD FATHERS are forced out of their childrens' lives. IF they are "lucky" enough to get to spend any time with them at all, it is considered GENEROUS to give him every other weekend. Many mothers do everything they can (and the courts back them up) to keep the father away from "HER" children.
Pain is pain. Nobody would label a terminally ill person in physical agony as hating himself if he becomes suicidal. Labeling a person in unbearable mental anguish as self hating makes no more sense. Certainly a strong faith in God and a loving family would help both cling to life for as long as humanly possible.
No...you didn't touch a nerve, HB.
I stand by what I've said...as you do...we just happen to disagree. See ya.
Do not confuse "sadness" with clinical depression. There is a world of difference, and even the most dedicated Christian can be affected by it. In most cases it is not a result of outward sin, but of a misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches about how we are to establish our priorities and unwarranted guilt because the person thinks they are not good enough or hasn't done enough "works". It becomes a downward spiral in which the person tries more and more to do "God's work" and the depression only gets worse.
Mere sadness, which is only temporary, cannot possibly be a sin because there were times when Jesus was sad and Jesus "was without sin". The Catholic Encyclopedia is simply wrong about sadness being a sin.
Pain is pain. Nobody would label a terminally ill person in physical agony as hating himself if he becomes suicidal. Labeling a person in unbearable mental anguish as self hating makes no more sense. Certainly a strong faith in God and a loving family would help both cling to life for as long as humanly possible.
There is a difference. This thread is not about terminally ill persons; it is about people suffering such deep emotional pain for which they see no way out, even if there is one. That is why hope is so crucial and why one does not commit suicide unless they feel there is no hope.
To paraphrase something I heard several years ago, "No one has ever discovered an unexpired lottery ticket on the body of a person who committed suicide." Not a great illustration, but it makes the point.
My father stayed away from his daughter's lives. My mother worked 2 jobs to keep us afloat...no child support came our way...ever. No money to take him back to court. You know what's great, though? My father may have made a grave error of not keeping in touch with us, but forgiveness was the bridge of establishing a new relationship. He's a great guy and I love him dearly.
I say this because it's important to remember there are women experiencing hardship caused by divorce as well as men. That fact seems to be dismissed on this thread.
I don't. I was quoting from a one thousand year old doctrine that preceded what we now know of as "The Seven Deadly Sins." The word "sadness" was apparently used to literally mean "despair," according to the Catholic Encyclopedia.
"There is a difference. This thread is not about terminally ill persons; it is about people suffering such deep emotional pain for which they see no way out, even if there is one. That is why hope is so crucial and why one does not commit suicide unless they feel there is no hope."
I don't see at all how that punches a hole in my analogy between physical and emotional pain or illness and the hoplessness that can accompany each. I personally know people who blew their brains out on receiving a terminal diagnosis and yet others who survived such diagnoses to be declared "cured." My point was that hopelessness needn't be classified as self hatred. I thought we were in agreement on that point.
Well, as it happens, we have an exact copy of what the person
said, so let's start from there. Let's skip over, for now, the fact that legalities
are, in fact, instruments of that state, and plunge in anyway.
"Legal" destruction of families is our enemies' first weapon of choice!
Since the woman, let's say, has to petition the
state to grant her a divorce, is Satan working
through the state or does he intervene magically?
Otherwise, he is just the face of the law, ie the
"legal" system mentioned. Since the legal system
is created and countenanced by the citizens,
wherein does Satan enter as the legal destroyer
of families? Are we all Satan? Or is the
"legal" dissolver of families, ie divorce, evil?
In which case, should divorce be abolished?
What a coincidence. That is what I asked
the poster at the time, but is another story.
I'm sorry but that just doesn't fly with me. Did the actions of the court contribute to his depression? Without a doubt. Did they make him pull the trigger? No, only he and he alone was responsible for that.
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