Church-state 'wall' Jefferson nearly built

"Sir," he replied, "no nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be."

I can't wait to see the handstands that some of the folks who usually quote Jefferson will be doing to prove that he didn't really mean exactly what he said.

Jefferson agreed with these dissenters - as did virtually all the Founders - that when government coerces conscience in matters of faith it threatens both civic peace and the purity of religion.

The curious thing that we see today is those who attempt to use the establishment clause as a government weapon against any public expressions of faith. We also see the radical sodomite agenda moving toward the silencing of conservative religious groups and their traditional morals via government force.

...Jefferson placed great value on symbolic support to religion. Two days after writing the letter, the president attended church services in the House of Representatives, a practice he would continue for years.

And now a student initiated prayer at a school function is verboten! How far this nation has fallen!

...he argued exactly as the most pious Founders did: Religious belief - freely chosen and given wide public space - nurtured morality and thus supported a free society.

Amen! There can be no freedom without faith.

For Jefferson's wall between church and state was meant to serve a greater goal - to promote and preserve religious liberty for Americans of all faiths.

What a shame that his wall should now be used to silence all faiths but state-mandated atheism.

The recent Library of Congress Jefferson exhibit showed that Jefferson regularly attended religious services that were held in the Supreme Court Building, according to his schedule book. On one occasion he even atended a service there conducted by a lady evangelist. The FBI found a way to reveal the words that Jefferson had inked over in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. These, in my opinion, indicate that Jefferson did not intend for the "wall" to be the constitutional prohibition of religion in public places as we have today. His definition of separation of church and state was to prohibit a national church supported by tax dollars such as The Church of England was in Britain.

Good post

His definition of separation of church and state was to prohibit a national church supported by tax dollars such as The Church of England was in Britain.

Absolutely. The idea of a state run by men bereft of religious faith was completely foreign to Mr. Jefferson.

I can't wait to see the handstands that some of the folks who usually quote Jefferson will be doing to prove that he didn't really mean exactly what he said.

What exactly did he say? I can't escape interpreting his words as meaning that he saw religion as useful lie in keeping the Republic functioning. I even wonder whether his actions somewhat anticipate Victorian skepticism, wherein one is unprincipled enough to keep up a religious facade for the sake of social appearances.

How clever to read something into it, that isn't there.

His exact quote was: "Sir, no nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be." And he was correct, particularly for a Republic such as ours.

I can't escape interpreting his words as meaning that he saw religion as useful lie in keeping the Republic functioning.

Jefferson was a Unitarian and proselytized on behalf of the church:

"I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its conscience to neither kings nor priests, the genuine doctrine of one God is reviving and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."

The man was incredulous. "You do not believe a word in it," he said.

As the article phrases it, Jefferson responds to an accusation of disbelief merely by pontificating on its necessity to national survival. Hardly a rebuttal of his interlocutor.