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To: Come And Take It
Fascisim is a nationalistic socialism, which incorperates large companies into it's power structure for 'social stability'. One can see this rising in America. China as it now stands is not communist but facist and it would be wise to realise this and also to take note that communisium by being capital centric has within itself the means of it's own down fall, but the nationalism of fascism provides for a more enduring totaliterinism.
23 posted on 01/03/2002 5:21:27 PM PST by Goblins
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To: Goblins
but the nationalism of fascism provides for a more enduring totaliterinism.

That's why Nazi Germany outlasted the USSR and Red China by exactly how many years? I detect a logical fault.

/john

28 posted on 01/03/2002 5:43:24 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: Goblins
Wow! What a tremendous absence of knowledge and research exists in this thread. It is hardly worth the bother, but here is a quick explanation of why the Nazi's were "right-wing" based upon the traditional left/right paradigm. That paradigm stems from the struggles between the British Parliament and Monarchy and from the writings upon which the American Constitutional system is based. In the case of the former, Edmund Burke wrote in favor of the monarchy, arguing in essence that society should rely upon and revere those institutions that had previously served that society as a foundation for civil order and peace, even though some defects might exist within those institutions. For Burke, that meant that political power would reside in an aristocracy and a monarchy with the King's power being unchecked except by tradition. Burke's theory became known as conservatism. Opposed to conservativism, were political philosophers such as John Locke and Thomas Hobbes that believed in very limited government held in check by a free market, a Constitution and a representative parliament. The theories of these writers became known as Liberalism.

The left/right paradigm that developed from these competing theories had liberalism on the left of the line and conservatism on the right. Liberalism assumed the need for radical change whereas conservativism assumed the need to retain the established order.

As time has passed, the term liberalism has lost its' original meaning. In many ways, most of us at FreeRepublic are classical liberals.

In any event, under Nazism, the national symbols of a culture are raised to a religious status, the state is granted the position of the King, as if its position were ordained by God, and private property is left in the hands of individuals favored by the omnipotent State. So, in essence, Nazism is conservativism taken to the extreme. It takes the people's culture that has heretofore bound that people together and elevates that culture to a religious level while establishing a favored aristocracy served by faceless serfs and slaves. There is no check on the power of the King at all. Hence, Nazism falls to the far right on the traditional paradigm.

On the other hand, communism is considered the complete overthrow of traditional institutions--the parliament, the church, the executive--and their replacement by a completely new system whereby the state owns all property but its' power is held in check by the communist party, representing the working class. As the society passes through the stage of socialism, and into a stage where manufacturing can meet the needs of all persons within the society, the society enters into the stage of communism, where the state whithers away, because the only decisions to be made are decisions of production and distribution. With the existence of only one class, and there being no need to redistribute limited resources, there remains no need for a state, which is only organized force used to keep a ruling class in power. Hence, with no state at all, communism falls at the far left of the traditional paradigm.

This said, I find the traditional paradigm somewhat useless in the modern world. A more useful paradigm would be one that measures the real social and economic freedom of the peoples that live under various political and economic systems. Under such a paradigm, Nazism, Communism, and Islamicism, would all fall at one end of the line, let us say the right since historically in the social sciences the right has meant a powerful state or king, meaning little freedom, and libertarianism would fall at the far end of the left.

I hope this sheds some light on the topic, and the terms, as they are thrown around quite a bit without definition. One thing is certain though. The Nazis did not nationalize any industries except those owned by Jews, and these were soon passed, even given, to favored capitalists in the fatherland. The extent to which a Fascist state is involved in the economy is that it will typically break unions and/or supply slave labor for factory owners. In exchange, it expects to receive the manufactured goods that the state requires, and it expects to receive them timely.

36 posted on 01/03/2002 6:18:39 PM PST by stryker
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