Posted on 01/03/2002 3:41:25 AM PST by dtom
I can attest that you won't die from it. It involves that unpopular virtue known as self control, which is useful in all areas of life.
Oh puh-LEASE! Does this mean people who don't practice pre-marital sex are automatically insane until they get married? Some people besides priests and religious are single (and celibate) all their lives. Are they all perverts?
Believe it or not, there's more to life than sex.
Lots of reasons, Vatican II contributed. Basically it was a loss of faith in the Church. I never meant to imply that clerical celibacy was the only reason we left, I'm sorry if you got that impression.
The idea that only a married man with kids can give Christian advice is the exact type of thinking that leads women to believe that only a woman can act as a therepist to women, blacks to believe that only a black can represent blacks in Congress, etc.
You're misunderstanding what I said. Clearly anyone that is well grounded in the faith can give Christian advice. But how can some one that has never been married help me apply the Bible to marital problems? They can quote it and interpret it all they want but unless they're in a position to give practicle advice, relate their experiences and what did and did not work for them the advice is all theory. It's not at all like only women can provide therapy for women or blacks represent blacks, those things are physiological not experiental. It's more like how only cops really understand cops, only people that have served in the military understand what it means to be a soldier. Someone that has never been married cannot understand marriage.
It is repugnant to the idea that we are all formed in the image of God.
Absolutely. The idea that color and race make us so different we can't understand each other is foolish. But we must experience makes all of us different from each and advice must come from common ground. No one that has not had the experience of something can offer up good advice on how other can better survive that same thing. I cannot tell people how to deal with the problems that arise from limb paralysis because I've never dealt with it, I can offer general support and a friendly ear, but I can't say "do this" because I don't know anything about it. Someone that has never had to reopen the lines of communication with a spouse cannot instruct on how to reopen lines of communication with a spouse, they have no praticle experience and anything they say on the subject is just something they've been told or read.
One must also remember that during the time period my family was growing away from the Church was a time when the Church frowned upon external counciling. At that time married Catholic with issues at home were instructed to NOT seek outside marriage councilors, but to only discuss these things with their priest. Your priest was supposed to be the entire support network, if you sought assistance from others you were being a bad Catholic, and unfortunately priests just can't give good advice on some stuff. Nobody is good at everything, and the severely limited experiences of priests severely limit the things they are good at.
It is what their perversion and their masters demands of them.
I've also been told by a Catholic priest that marriage is allowed in certain parts of the world where the culture is such that the priest could not effectively function in the society unless he was married. I recall certain parts of Africa being mentioned by name.
It therefore seems that celibacy of the priesthood is "ernestly recommended" rather than being an unbendable doctrine. I actually think the church would benefit if the priests could be married, allowing them to interface more effectively with their constituents. It certainly seems to have helped the protestants.
I may not be a member of the Holy Roman Church, but I have great respect for her. And all members of the Church are my brothers and sisters and I have great love for them. I know bashing when I hear it, and bashing can usually be addressed by logic. As for my membership, if I could get a priest to accept certain views of mine that are distinct from those often shared from the pulpit as being non-apostate - even if I never share them - then I could become a member of a Catholic Community with no trouble. But I would not want to hold my views to myself and not clear my relationship with the Shepherd of the Flock. IMO: that would be dishonest. Also, my wife was raised Baptist. She has come a long way in her spiritual walk to stop worrying about labels, but becoming Catholic would still be too great a stretch for her. And I love her to much to press the issue.
Shalom.
I do clerical work in addition to my job as a court reporter.
Nobody told me about enforced celibacy. Who's going to come and arrest me, the Spanish Inquisition?
8')
People in this forum keep referring to archaic institutions like "nunneries," and using words like "rigid" to describe the Church. There are NO nunneries. Nuns live in sorority-like houses, wear jeans and engage in social work. They have more freedom now than ever. I believe the wrong people are being recruited into the Church - not turned into perverts by RC rigidity.
One other thing, before I lay down with a cold cloth across my forehead: if you want to see "rigidity", go visit a Parisian Catholic Church. You will see secluded nuns (you can peek at them through a grill) dressed in starched habits, literally singing God's praises while accompanying themselves on musical instruments. Most would think they lead miserable lives - except for the serenity written so clearly on their faces.
Please forgive this rant!!
Pedophiles usually don't want to be pedophiles, and they usually turn to God for help. They figure, if I become a priest, maybe God will cure my problem.
And God NEVER cures anyones' problems for them.
So after a while, maybe even a few decades, they start molesting children.
However, the idea that forced celibacy leads to child molestation is ridiculous, they could always go for women around their own age.
Bears repeating. Bump!
Shalom.
Nooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear. Our two chief weapons are suprise and fear and ruthless efficiency. Our three chief weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and a fanatical devotion to the Pope. Ah. Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as, fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, a fanatical devotion to the Pope, and a night out with the boys. Ack! I'll come in again.
You asked for it.
Shalom.
I suppose you can back up anything in this rediculous post. Particularly the quoted claim?
No I don't. Not really. Shalom.
Looking back, I see I read you to fast, so the fault is mine.
You're misunderstanding what I said. Clearly anyone that is well grounded in the faith can give Christian advice. But how can some one that has never been married help me apply the Bible to marital problems? They can quote it and interpret it all they want but unless they're in a position to give practicle advice, relate their experiences and what did and did not work for them the advice is all theory. It's not at all like only women can provide therapy for women or blacks represent blacks, those things are physiological not experiental. It's more like how only cops really understand cops, only people that have served in the military understand what it means to be a soldier. Someone that has never been married cannot understand marriage.
I would think that some blacks and women would call their existence "experiential" and consider the idea of taking advice from a "non" person useless. I do see what you are saying, and there is certainly a difference between empathy and sympathy. But I don't see where all advice, or all good advice needs to come from one with experience. Certainly it is often beneficial to be that way, so I will leave it at that.
SD
Do you know that he was not? Can you imagine what the qualifications must be to be the earthly father to the Son of G-d?
Father tell me how I fit into this plan of yours.
How can a man be father to the son of G-d?
Lord, for all my life I've been a simple carpenter.
How can I raise a King? How can I raise a King?
-Michael CardShalom.
Actually, Mary is the greatest saint who ever lived.
Do you project your sexual fantasies, grounded in this age of birth control, upon all characters in the Bible? Jesus lived 33 years, that's an awful long time to go without gettin' some, ain't it? He even had all those prostitutes around.
SD
I should have said that it develops that unpopular virtue known as self control, which is useful in all areas of life.
Oh, yeah, right ... "demonizing" women (???) creates pedophiles out of otherwise-normal adult men.
What rot. By the same logic, perhaps we should have shipboard brothels in the Navy -- otherwise, the risk of homosexual rape on those long sea voyages is just too high.
Thanks, Jamie, for ignoring all of the evidence from psychology, which indicates that sexual behavior patterns are chosen by late adolescence (after which no amount of "demonizing" of women will make a pedophile out of a normal man), and all of the evidence from sociology, which indicates that married Protestant clergy commit child sexual abuse at the same rates as celibate Catholic clergy.
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