Posted on 01/02/2002 8:15:10 PM PST by Darth Sidious
Well, this should be an interesting thread, for the irony if nothing else…
About five months ago, on August 7th, a couple of your friendly neighborhood Freepers – namely, Rebelbase and yours truly – stood at the intersection of Battleground Avenue and Pisgah Church Road in Greensboro, NC, and protested the red-light cameras that have gone up all over the city. It’d take up too much time to go into the details of our Freep, and the full story is on the ”After-Action Report” thread. But for a quick recap: for over four hours under the hot August sun, we told motorists to “Smile: You’re On KOMRADE KAMERA”. We literally got hundreds of honks and thumbs-ups of support. Our friends in law enforcement said they supported us in our efforts against the red-light cameras. It was a lot of fun, and we met a lot of good people during our time at the intersection.
Well folks, that was Round One. Now comes the far more serious Round Two.
A few weeks ago I was driving down the same stretch of road, heading into Greensboro on some business. It was raining, there had been some fog but otherwise visibility was good.
As I approached the same intersection of Battleground Ave. and Pisgah Church Road, the light turned yellow. I began to slow down but saw the guy behind me not stopping, then putting on brakes and skidding on the rain-saturated asphalt. Now, I saw the light just turn red just as my car got to the line at the intersection. But if I came to a sudden stop, I would almost certainly have been rear-ended to the best of my judgment.
To make a long story short, I got caught by the camera. And I'm counting no less than 3, possibly 4 violations of the U.S. Constitution on the citation in front of me.
I could pay the $50 fine, and it would be a neat and tidy affair. I could also never tell my children, with any sincerity, about how much we believed these cameras were wrong, so much so that we braved 100-degree heat against them. And if I rolled over now, and let this go on, what kind of incremental damage would I be doing to my children's freedoms? The same freedoms that our forefathers paid a far greater price for, that we might enjoy these liberties?
God gave the stewardship of those liberties to we the people. Not to the state, not to any government, but to us. Folks, you will not believe how much I've seethed the past week or so at reading this citation, how much disregard that enough of the wrong kind of people have for the Constitution.
I could pay the fine, and be comfortable. Or I could contest, and justify my actions, that they avoided serious damage to my vehicle and more importantly, to myself. And quite frankly... my conscience simply cannot allow me to pay this fine. My heart is compelled with no other choice, but to fight. And to fight with every whit of my being.
There is a federal lawsuit against the city of High Point, NC, for their red-light cameras. That doesn't encompass Greensboro, however. And to the best of my ability there are no lawsuits against Greensboro regarding them. I'm ready, willing and able to go the distance, to pledge not to be worn down, to be persistent as all get out, however long it takes to prove what you and me already know: that the red-light cameras are a gross violation of the United States Constitution. I want... no, have to fight this... but I can't do it alone.
At this point, it has been advised that I post this to FreeRepublic.com's general forum, to fill everyone in on what's taken place, at the circumstances now before us and what we can make of it to contest the red-light cameras. And to ask for any advice and counsel that Free Republic's "legal eagles" might offer. Because when it comes to anything like filing a lawsuit, I'm a babe in the woods. I've the passion, just not the knowledge or experience. But I wanna give this all I can.
Darth; the first thing to do is go to the traffic court and try to win based upon the facts and common sense evidence. Most likely you will lose because traffic court is a rubber stamp; it is an administrative procedure; not a real court.
When you lose, you immediately give the traffic court notice of appeal for a trial or hearing De Nova. You must do this very fast because the judge will try to tell you the fine and rush you through to get to the next guy and keep ringing the cash register.
When you give notice; all fines etc. are stayed until the hearing in a real court. This will piss off the judge because you are rubbing his nose in it and the municipality issuing the ticket will have to send an attorney to appear in the common pleas court to plead their side of the case. This will cost the municipality substantially more than what they would gain from your fine. Do not be intimidated however, it is your right.
A Trial or a Hearing De Nova means 2nd hearing, but fresh, like it has not been heard or adjudicated before. You get to present real evidence and have a good shot at winning (in some cases you can even request a jury trial; and sometimes the case is dropped when you show up because it isn't worth it for the municipality to try the case); but even if you lose, the municipality issuing the ticket (if different than the locality of the common pleas court) will not get any proceeds from the fine; it goes to the real court.
I have done this in Ohio before; and have seen it work for others as well.
Have a nice day, sui
Me neither. That's the one fly in this whole cow-manure ointment that really irks me. I don't know where it is in the pics and I'm not even sure if it was a car or truck (it was white, I remember that much, and had its headlights on).
Still going to contest, however.
I don't think you can get a jury trial when your only jeopardy is cash below a certain amount.
It is an improperly delivered summons though so you might be able to just ignore it until they come get you. I doubt that they can legally deny you an appeal for failing to respond to something delivered by regular mail. Now if it was delivered registered mail, you should just pay it.
BTW, the photograph clearly show the car entering the intersection (busy , no less) with a car waiting on you in the left turn lane and now car behind you. I think you should just pay it.
I do remember reading, however, about such tickets and if I recall correctly, they are being thrown out left and right if fought. I don't believe that they can suddenly dismiss "HER" ticket and now charge YOU. Talk to a traffic lawyer.
Looks to me like Darth needs to have some discovery from the city and company operating these (s)cams.
2. Plead NOT Gulity!
3. Get a trail date
4. Show up on trial dat
5. Ask for a continuance
5. Write the judge and ask for an interview with the citing officer (the one who issued the ticket)
6. Pose all of the questions you saw in this thread and write them down
7. File a motion for Discovery asking for any and everyting about that camera (number of citations, copies of photos, calibrations, the user's manual, etc., etc.
8. Show up for the trial and see if the prosecution does <pP Chances are good that your motions will be denied, BUT, if that's the case, the opposing attorney canot introduce anything against you that you cannot question, so...you win!
Let me make it clear that I am NOT in favor of red light runners (we have lost too many people in Anchorage due to these morons for me to endorse it)- but these cameras are most emphatically NOT about traffic safety. They are about raising money for the company that runs them, and the local government.
One thing that worked against photo radar in Anchorage was that it mysteriously appeared right after the citizens had voted for a tax cap. It was a blatant attempt to get around this limitation on taxation, and even some of the brain-dead Sheeple couuld understand that.
Mark Begich, the Democrat dweeb most responsible, was thrown out at the next election, and probably will NEVER realize his political ambition of becoming Governor of Alaska (or Senator from Alaska). So our resistance was worth it!!!
BTW, hearing was last Thursday ('twas just me, an "independent lawyer" and a computer monitor showing my car). I'm supposed to hear back by mail this week about how the appeal went. That decision being made by this same "independent lawyer", and the SafeLight staff.
"Due process" my a$$!!!
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