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The Ring of Gyges LINK
1 posted on 01/02/2002 6:12:27 PM PST by Marianne
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To: Marianne
Cool treatise. So "that's" the message behind the film I just saw today!

I enjoyed the film and recommend it to all. (Not very young children, however.)

2 posted on 01/02/2002 6:18:54 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Marianne
If Constantine and David could not be trusted with absolute power, how much less should we trust George W. Bush and John Ashcroft with it?

And even if you do trust Bush and Ashcroft, will you trust their successors?

3 posted on 01/02/2002 6:28:37 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Marianne
"Beware of concentrating power in any human institution, even when (perhaps, especially when) we think that the leaders are "good people."

And beware of giving people or institutions too many limitations on their power lest they be incapable of decisive action when it it really needed. Checks and balances are ok, but don't tie the hands of your leaders to the point where they cannot lead.

4 posted on 01/02/2002 6:32:00 PM PST by ObfusGate
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To: Marianne
From one of the most brilliant thinkers of 19th Century England, Lord Acton:

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

He and Tolkein were both devout Catholics - as well as highly regarded intellectuals at a time when intellectuals were largely "classical liberals", which means they were largely traditional and Christian. Not the left wing nutty "liberals" of this century.

5 posted on 01/02/2002 6:35:59 PM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: Victoria Delsoul
(((ping))))


7 posted on 01/02/2002 6:42:05 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Marianne
It is not that Frodo is too small and weak to weild the power, it's that he's pure of heart and thus can resist it longer.

As to whether or not we can trust GW with the power he requires to defeat the evil that threatens us, we'll just have to see what happens AFTER we've defeated it.

However, since presidents are elected to 4 year terms with an 8 year maximum, and since we have both a judicial and a congressional branch to offer checks and balances, I don't really think we have very much to worry about.

We have more to worry about if we hamstring our leaders and refuse to allow them to weild a weapon when they are trying to defend us.

8 posted on 01/02/2002 6:48:01 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: Marianne
>In the place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night.

I had a woman manager like that once, that back stabbing, shoe buying.... well nevermind.

The first time I heard the speech, I though Galadriel had said the b-word, but I guess it was just me.

Interesting article, has nothing to do with LOTR. Rousting some alien, sleeper agents does not a tyrant make. Sorry!

9 posted on 01/02/2002 6:49:47 PM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Marianne
TOLKIEN'S MESSAGE: POWER CORRUPTS

Cyber Liberty's message: Well, DUH!

Interesting to note that, in the very last line of the article, the author compares Bush and Ashcroft to Sauron. Breathtaking.

10 posted on 01/02/2002 6:51:27 PM PST by Cyber Liberty
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To: Marianne
Good read, but I wonder if Tolkien was warning against ALL great power, irrespective of its source, or that power from an unholy source can never be trusted to produce a righteous result?

Freeper thoughts?

11 posted on 01/02/2002 6:56:16 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Marianne
Wanderer/LOTR bump
12 posted on 01/02/2002 7:14:03 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Marianne
Who's giving W or Ashcroft absolute power? That is stupid. Anyone with absolute power would not permit the criticism those two have to endure on a daily basis. Get real!

I think we need to be wary of a new ring--the ring of absolute stupidity. It rules over other rings, like the ring of relativism and the ring of passivity, to name only two.

13 posted on 01/02/2002 7:14:57 PM PST by Media2Powerful
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To: Marianne
"If Constantine and David could not be trusted with absolute power, how much less should we trust George W. Bush and John Ashcroft with it?"

Thanks for the post Marianne.

The use of power is a game and if you choose not to use it, then others who do acquire power will use it against you. I am reminded of Niccolo Machiavelli in The Prince ...

"Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires."

Politicians have too much power in our Republic. And whose fault is that? When we chose not to particpate in the system, we get what we deserve.

14 posted on 01/02/2002 7:19:12 PM PST by 2Trievers
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To: Marianne
Nice framing of the LOTF morality, but I believe that Mr. Clark should be referring to Lord Acton, not "Action." Thanks.
17 posted on 01/02/2002 8:41:19 PM PST by Nevermore
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To: Marianne
"While the Lord of the Rings is certainly not a political treatise, the moral of the tale is clear: All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

One way in which it makes this point is that Frodo is only able to get the Ring because he does not want to use it, but wants this instrument of power to keep others from misusing it, a very conservative principle.

Oddly, the same theme shows up in Harry Potter. He is able to find and secure the Sorceror's Stone precisely because he has no intention of using it, but intends to keep others from doing so, because using it corrupts you, just as using the ring does.

Amazing that such a conservative theme is common to the books that are the sources of the two blockbuster movies our now. How did this get past the Hollywood establishment?

18 posted on 01/02/2002 8:47:51 PM PST by TBP
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To: Marianne
"While the Lord of the Rings is certainly not a political treatise, the moral of the tale is clear: All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

One way in which it makes this point is that Frodo is only able to get the Ring because he does not want to use it, but wants this instrument of power to keep others from misusing it, a very conservative principle.

Oddly, the same theme shows up in Harry Potter. He is able to find and secure the Sorceror's Stone precisely because he has no intention of using it, but intends to keep others from doing so, because using it corrupts you, just as using the ring does.

Amazing that such a conservative theme is common to the books that are the sources of the two blockbuster movies our now. How did this get past the Hollywood establishment?

19 posted on 01/02/2002 8:48:15 PM PST by TBP
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To: Tolkien
Linking
25 posted on 01/12/2002 6:56:07 PM PST by Marianne
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