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One God for all
me | me

Posted on 12/29/2001 5:07:26 PM PST by mfreddy

Today my local newspaper had a nasty response to a LCMS pastor's claim that Christians and Muslims do not believe in the same god. The author goes on to say "This is contrary to all the sources I've seen, which explain that Jews, Christians and Muslims do indeed worship the same god, in what is termed the Abrahamic tradition. Perhaps he is confused my the term "Allah" (Arabic for "the lord"), not understanding that it is a different name for God, not the name of a different god." The letter closes with a personal attack on the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.

Can anyone help me understand what the philosophical differences between the three religions and provide me with information to refute the letter if untrue?

Given the nasty nature of the letter and the attack on the Church I feel strongly compelled to at least investigate whether a response is warranted.


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To: VeritatisSplendor
I am including all churches that would agree to the common creed..
101 posted on 12/30/2001 11:16:22 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: glassheart3
I've never read that in the scripture, about Ishmael being at Abraham's funeral; can you tell me where the reference is??
102 posted on 12/30/2001 11:48:28 AM PST by Sueann
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Comment #103 Removed by Moderator

To: glassheart3
Thanks!
104 posted on 12/30/2001 1:33:33 PM PST by Sueann
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To: RnMomof7
I'm a member of the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (or, I would join, except I'm too Apathetic). Are any of us Saved? Will I spend eternity in the netherworld? Purgatory? Hades? H-E Double Toothpicks? Cleveland?
105 posted on 12/30/2001 1:48:54 PM PST by Diverdogz
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To: athiestwithagun
This also means that the God of the Jews is not the same as the Christian God.

that simply is INcorrect ... the Orthodox Jew knows only God the Father ... the Trinity is a mystery and they don't know God the Son (and God the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19 ) ... Salvation to the Gentiles, the Christian Church, was also a mystery to the Jew ... God has a purpose in this, as Romans 1, 9, 10 and 11 bear out ... FReegards

Bobby

SufferingMessiah.Com
106 posted on 12/30/2001 2:01:35 PM PST by Bobby777
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To: mfreddy
Thought y'all might find this section from the Catholic Encyclopedia relevant. (Paragraphing added by me.) I wonder how many of those denying that Allah means God are Catholics?

Allah

The name of God in Arabic. It is a compound word from the article, 'al, and ilah, divinity, and signifies "the god" par excellence. This form of the divine name is in itself a sure proof that ilah was at one time an appellative, common to all the local and tribal gods. Gradually, with the addition of the article, it was restricted to one of them who took precedence of the others; finally, with the triumph of monotheism, He was recognized as the only true God.

In one form or another this Hebrew root occurs in all Semitic languages as a designation of the Divinity; but whether it was originally a proper name, pointing to a primitive monotheism, with subsequent deviation into polytheism and further rehabilitation, or was from the beginning an appellative which became a proper name only when the Semites had reached monotheism is a much debated question. It is certain, however, that before the time of Mohammed, owing to their contact with Jews and Christians, the Arabs were generally monotheists.

The notion of Allah in Arabic theology is substantially the same as that of God among the Jews, and also among the Christians, with the exception of the Trinity, which is positively excluded in the Koran, cxii: "Say God, is one God, the eternal God, he begetteth not, neither is he begotten and there is not any one like unto him." His attributes denied by the heterodox Motazilites, are ninety-nine in number. Each one of them is represented by a bead in the Moslem chaplet, while on the one hundredth and larger bead, the name of Allah itself is pronounced.

It is preposterous to assert with Curtiss (Ursemitische Religion, 119) that the nomadic tribes of Arabia, consider seriously the Oum-el-Gheith, "mother of the rain", as the bride of Allah and even if the expression were used such symbolical language would not impair, in the least, the purity of monotheism held by those tribes. (Cf. Revue Biblique, Oct., 1906, 580 sqq.) Let it be noted that although Allah is an Arabic term, it is used by all Moslems, whatever be their language, as the name of God.

107 posted on 12/30/2001 2:09:52 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Diverdogz
You will spend eternity exactly where you will to. So the choice is all yours
108 posted on 12/30/2001 2:15:52 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Great. I choose Grand Cayman Island ....with my scuba gear, of course.
109 posted on 12/30/2001 3:05:13 PM PST by Diverdogz
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To: Diverdogz
Glad you are pleased..I am not sure where you will be moved though when the earth and stars "pass away" But I am sure it will still be in your will:>)
110 posted on 12/30/2001 3:10:31 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: rdb3
If the Jews do not recognize Christ as the Messiah, and they thus cannot recognize the Trinity, how can they be worshipping the same Triune God?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't see how it could be otherwise.

114 posted on 12/31/2001 5:10:33 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: 1 spark
Jesus IS God, but the Jews don't recognize Him as such.
115 posted on 12/31/2001 5:11:32 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: mfreddy; RnMomof7; CCWoody; the_doc; Uriel1975; Orthodox Presbyterian
My problem with this thread is that much discussion goes like so:

"The Christian God is not the same (or is the same) as the God of the Jews is not the same (or is the same) as the Muslim God." What this presupposes is the fact that God could be owned by any human or group of humans. Now, it is true that there are many gods (more than we can imagine), and "Tommy's god is not the same (or is the same) as Joyce's god who is not the same (or is the same) as Bruce's god", but there is only one true God, the Creator of heaven and earth. He defies compartmentalization, and will not be "owned" by any of His creatures.

He transcends His creation, yet He has revealed Himself through the revelation of His Word and by His Son, Jesus the Christ.

116 posted on 12/31/2001 5:20:57 AM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Cacophonous
Let's follow it through. In whose house was Jesus born?
117 posted on 12/31/2001 5:30:28 AM PST by rdb3
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To: rdb3
I assume you mean the House of David; Jesus Chirst was born to be the King of Jews, the King of Kings, etc, all according to Old Testament prophecy. The Jews, however, do not recognize him as fulfilling that prophecy, and therefore do not recognize him as the Messiah.

The New Testament (which Judaism also does not recognize) teaches us that Christ IS God; and that Christ IS man. Christ is both, and the dual nature of Christ is a keystone of Christianity. And, as I've pointed out, Christ forms, (with the Father and the Holy Spirit) one of the three persons of the Godhead; all are co-equal and all are one. I don't know what Jews think of the concept of the Holy Spirit, but they completely reject the Son. Since you cannot reject one leg of the Trinity without rejecting the whole, how can they worship the same God?

In the interests of full disclosure, I am still learning; I will consult my pastor the next time I see him and make sure I am not screwing something up. I will also say that there are denominations within Christianity that disagree on these issues.

118 posted on 12/31/2001 5:47:07 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
. . .how can they worship the same God?

You say that you are still learning, and I appreciate your honesty. If what I may add goes towards your edification in faith, then I will have gathered some fruit from you.

When you look into the Old Testament, you will find where God the Father specfically said that He would blind the children of Israel's eyes so that they would reject Christ. This was written in prophecy many, many times. Their rejection of Him was so that the fulness of the Gentiles would come in. But God the Father has not neglected Israel, which is the apple of His eye and is described as His wife (just as the church is the bride of Christ).

The Jews are still looking for the Messiah, even though He has alredy come. This is God's plan. It is written when Christ returns to earth that "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn" (Zechariah 12:10). See how that's from the Old Testament? They, the Jews, will mourn for Him because they will see that it was indeed He who they had rejected the first time. But this isn't any reason to have disdain for the Jews. It's all a part of fulfilling God's plan! They will accept Jesus, in the end. They can yell at me if they wish for saying it, but, it's written in the Old Testament.

Now, Acts 2:2-4 shows us where the Holy Spirit was given to the believers. The Holy Spirit appeared first in the Gospels when John the Baptist baptized Jesus. Thus, Christ's fulfillment of His purpose unleashes the Holy Spirit, and we then understand the three Godheads. This doesn't negate the fact that Jesus was born in the House of David, as promised, and that Jesus was a Jew who came to His own first. Remember the mount of transfiguration? Who was Christ talking to? Was Moses and Elijah before worshipping a different God than the one Jesus did? Of course not! He is the same God.

And it will be all fulfilled in the end.

I hope this helps some. Any other questions you may have, please ask here or FReepmail me.

God bless you, and keep you in Him.

119 posted on 12/31/2001 6:11:31 AM PST by rdb3
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To: rdb3
Thank you very much; your reply is interesting, causes me to think and learn, and these are the civilized discussions I enjoy.

If I understand you correctly, Jews reject Christ as part of prophecy, but will ultimately accept him; I can believe this (again, I will speak with my pastor for clarification). For the sake of the Jews, I do hope they accept Christ.

And please don't confuse my ramblings with disdain for Judaism or Jews. Whether what I say is right or wrong, I mean no disrespect.

120 posted on 12/31/2001 6:26:55 AM PST by Cacophonous
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