Posted on 12/29/2001 9:27:49 AM PST by Demidog
I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.
I wish I knew why.
I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.
One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.
American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."
Many soldiers who were in the vicinity of those tests also died from cancer.
Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.
But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.
The truth is quite the opposite.
I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.
One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.
This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.
It is the analysis of the simpleton.
The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.
When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.
The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.
None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.
So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.
And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.
As is proven time and time again, such meddling has a high price.
And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.
I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.
The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.
America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.
America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.
Really? I have used the word Troll on several occasions in this thread as it was obviously true. Trolling for a response is easy to spot by the blatantly off-topic replies. I have also called two people here race-baiters because in fact they are absolutely and without question race-baiters. Other than that, you be sure and post a reference to what it is you believe you are referring to.
You were given ample examples of it but you chose to ignore them. I'll define insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Discuss.
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Roscoe will now show one of the founders calling a dissenter a "hate-America firster."
And don't forget that the Bush administration's foreign policy is insane. And that we should abandon Israel. And that the videotape of OBL is faked.
Not true. There is no Airline Amtrac.
Do you even know which papers are covered by the EO? You are citing all kinds of cases that are easily investigated by congress and the president is not hampering them at all.
We didn't buy but Hitler and Mussolini later did.
That's supposed to be an argument for appeasement of the Taliban?
Socialists frequently tell us to trust our leaders,
and to stop interfering with the work of government.
# 507 by exodus
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To: exodus
Paranoids often tell us to never trust anything or anyone.
What is your point?
BTW, I am not out to get you.
# 511 by Texasforever
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I know, Texasforever.
You're a friend.
My point is that Roscoe is changing the subject.
Roscoe is trying to turn this into a shouting match about Israel,
instead of a thread about how those who question
any aspect of government are labeled "anti-American."
Since he put personal profit before national interest, Benedict's libertarian tendencies must have been revolting to the Founding Fathers.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
How is nationalism any different than "America-first"
"...Our government is wrong to nationalize airlines..."
# 560 by exodus
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To; exodus
Not true.
There is no Airline Amtrac.
# 566 by Texasforever
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But there is, Texasforever.
It's called America West Airlines.
Our government claimed a 33 percent cut of a private company.
Big yawn back at ya! Take it up with Dan Burton...
Some of my ancestors were marched 3,000 miles from the Carolinas to Oklahoma Territory onto a reservation. My Great Grandfather was a fire boss in some of the largest coal mines in the west and never lost a man on his watch. 30 years and he never lost a man. That's something to be proud of.
One of my Great great grandfathers was a Texas Ranger and has a monument put up for him after dying in a battle with Indians. Ironic. One side of my family was Indians and the other was killing Indians.
But that doesn't matter to the scumbags like Roscoe who is more eager to paint me and others as Aryan nations types if it will serve his agenda.
Sometimes I'll get pissed. Call me an anti-american to my face and you'll end up with a mouth full of teeth. Do it here and I might just call you a name too. My family fought and died for this country. It aint up to you or anyone else to make that accusation.
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