Posted on 12/29/2001 9:27:49 AM PST by Demidog
I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.
I wish I knew why.
I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.
One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.
American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."
Many soldiers who were in the vicinity of those tests also died from cancer.
Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.
But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.
The truth is quite the opposite.
I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.
One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.
This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.
It is the analysis of the simpleton.
The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.
When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.
The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.
None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.
So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.
And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.
As is proven time and time again, such meddling has a high price.
And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.
I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.
The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.
America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.
America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.
When I think of our relationship with Britain I don't ever think about the EU or your influence in it. I think about the fact that you never went anywhere in the world, even as a colonial power, that you didn't leave it better than you found it. [India, Africa, Ireland...] I think about the fact that in the last three hundred years you have been the modern Athens and we have been the modern Rome. I think about what you have contributed through the genius that Britain has had for democracy - a genius that has been possessed by no other people in the modern world to the degree that you have had it.
I know you've read this...but this really popped out. I see what you're saying. Some real whoppers in here. Wow. We're Rome and here's a supposedly staunch Conservative saying "Empire is Grand! We are Rome!"
To those I bumped. You have to read this speech by Phil Graham made to The Centre for Policy Studies in England. It should blow your mind.
Circular reasoning, the government is wrong either way. Either the evil United States Government is trying to "frame" old Bin or they are not. Which is it? You and the rest of the doubters need to state right up front what your doubts are and why you have them. There seems to be two issues that some of you are implying. The first is that the Government foreign policy is the root cause of the 911 attacks. The second and conflicting implication is that the person that has called for "war" on the evil empire, has yet to be proven guilty of financing and ordering the attacks even though he is using the same rationale as the dog for why the attacks happened.
The same 0.4% who voted for Harry Browne?
You gotta laugh when a rant includes this....
There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews.... Oh gee mighty open minded there LOL.
Not only will we not examine our policy vis a vis Israel (by that I assume the ranter means cut Israel off) we are closer than ever to Israel.
I don't think giving in to the wishes of Bin Laden is a good policy, do you? Plus Israel is a very valuable ally - THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK SO according to the new Zogby Middle East poll.
But feel free to write your Congressman. PS - 'America First' was the name adopted by the appeasers and Nazi sympathizers in WWII - folks our President did not trust one little bit.
Wow, that capitalization of Americans sure convinced me.
To: Rowdee
"...You still can't say what you are looking for
in the papers that are protected.
That makes it a "fishing expedition"
and you should be glad that Bush won't allow such nonsense.
# 465 by RGSpincich
************************
I can say exactly what I would be looking for.
I would be looking for what a policeman
would be looking for after getting a search warrant.
I would be looking for evidence
to support the charges levied
against the Clinton administration.
AMERICANS support our continuing relationship with Israel - see the just released Zogby (an Arab btw) poll.
Some fringe types are whining, that is true.
You are really going to suggest that these are the only available choices? I'm sorry but my skepticism in the truth telling capabilities of our government are not limited to "frame up or not to frame up." If you wish to limit your thinking to that kind of nonsense then be my guest but don't expect me to participate in it.
As long as his sister doesn't marry one, no doubt.
Leave it to you to immediatley insinuate the anti-Semite angle.
Ok, what are the other "choices" that you have in mind.
Think for yourself.
Expensive, high-quality watches and gourmet chocolates, to name two.
I would be looking for what a policeman
would be looking for after getting a search warrant.
I would be looking for evidence
to support the charges levied
against the Clinton administration.
What charges have been levied?
I am interested in what you think and why you think it. If you can't defend your own vanity post then why did you post it?
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