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1 posted on 12/29/2001 12:09:43 AM PST by Starmaker
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To: Starmaker
The brand of atheist that Ayn Rand was is what is now usualy called agnostic. I've recently read some of her ideas and I think they carry merit. I don't agree with all she has to say or in any way support or endorse her institute, but I think objectivism is, overall, a beneficial contribution to society and philosophy. Plus they are strong supporters of Israel over there...
2 posted on 12/29/2001 12:09:46 AM PST by College Repub
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To: Starmaker
I believe I also read somewhere that Ayn Rand was the one author that everyone in the House and Senate have read something by. Perhaps everyone is an exageration, but I'd bet she comes in #2 after the writers of the constitution.
3 posted on 12/29/2001 12:09:52 AM PST by College Repub
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To: Starmaker
the morally neutral idea that man somehow miraculously evolved out of the mud

There is nothing miraculous about it. It was actually a slow process of chemicals and environmental conditions coming together over billions of years to produce man.

Miracles are illogical fantasies that religious people use to explain their beliefs where logic falls short.

Furthermore, I don't reject creation because Ayn Rand does. I reject creation because it cannot be scientifically proven. Anyone who wants you to believe in creation usually tells you that you must have "Faith", and then asks you to donate 10% of your salary for "God".

I am quite willing to risk an eternity in hell, for intellectual freedom on earth. I think that hell and heavan are simply stories that men have created for two reasons: 1)They have unanswered questions such as "How did I get here? in their minds, make up an incredible story to explain it rather than accept that they may never know the answer. 2) They want to have power over others, so they claim that there is a great place in the afterlife (that can't be proven) and tell others that they must perform acts of self depravation to them to get their. We call these power hungry people priests and ministers.

6 posted on 12/29/2001 12:10:02 AM PST by antienvironmentalist
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To: Starmaker; Uriel1975; the_doc; Orthodox Presbyterian
Rand's fatal flaw was her atheism. Without the Creator, there is no basis (IMHO) for an objective view of the universe.

I read most all of Rand's works as a young adult. I used to think of myself as a "Christian Objectivist", but discovered that I didn't need to pollute my Christianity by unequally yoking it to Randian Objectivism.

I have since seen Rand as a "blind squirrel" who occasionally found an acorn.

10 posted on 12/29/2001 12:10:08 AM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Starmaker
...Peikoff wants to "take the Christ out of Christmas, and turn the holiday into a guiltlessly egotistic, pro-reason, this-worldly, commercial celebration"...

Well that's already happened, but Peikoff's not responsible.

Isn't it sad, to see Objectivism degenerating into militant atheism, under his influence?

13 posted on 12/29/2001 12:10:15 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: Starmaker
altruist injunctions (e.g., love thy neighbor) that no one takes seriously

Tony Snow tells the story of the Washington reporter who called him after the 1994 elections for introductions to Republicans. The reporter said "I don't know any."

And wasn't it the film critic Pauline Kael who, stunned at Nixon's landslide victory in 1972, said "Everybody I know voted for McGovern."

It's just as easy to be an intellectually ingrown atheist as it is to be a Democrat, or a country parson.

18 posted on 12/29/2001 12:10:22 AM PST by Taliesan
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To: Starmaker
Could be re-titled as:

Ayn Rand And Her Legacy Of Idiotic Objectionists.

22 posted on 12/29/2001 12:10:43 AM PST by Eddeche
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To: owk
ping
30 posted on 12/29/2001 12:11:21 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: 2sheep; havoc; rnmomof7
ping
32 posted on 12/29/2001 12:11:21 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Starmaker
I wrote this earlier when Chuck Morse posted his essay.

Reading Peikoff I don’t find him sneering at Christian’s but merely acknowledging reality. The commercial part of Christmas has eclipsed the religious celebration as demonstrated by where most Americans spend their time, money and energy. Compare the amount of ink used or thought put into Christmas trees, light displays, shopping for presents and all of the other secular parts of Christmas; as opposed to nativity scenes, religious services and thoughts about the birth of Christ.

Extreme atheism: extreme is an adjective that adds nothing to atheism. You are either an atheist or not just as you are either a theist or not; you can’t be any more or any less of an atheist.

Claiming Creation theory is more rational than evolution theory is wrong. While it is true that evolution as a complete theory is lacking in certain areas, it still is a simpler and therefore more likely explanation of the origin of the universe. If God exits he would have to be greater and more complex than that which he created. Theists believe that God somehow came into existence, which would be even less likely than that a less complex Universe happened on its own. You can’t arrive at a belief in God through a rational process; it requires faith.

I would have to agree with you about many of our current Socialist intellectual leaders desiring the sacrifice of others. But there are also Pastors that profess Christ while demanding sacrifice on the part of their congregation; sacrifice that in reality ends up benefiting primarily the church leaders.

To call the vision utopian is mistaken. Utopian requires a belief in the perfectibility of mankind. Ayn Rand laid out an idealized vision of man’s potential but I find no evidence that she expected many would live up to it. Until all men are perfect you can never create utopia and to try will always result in catastrophe. The best we can do is try to move things in a better direction.

To claim that an accurate historical description of the true origin of the Christmas holiday some how venerates paganism is wrong. If any one venerates paganism it is those that worship the holiday as a historical reality.

To end with a parting cheap shot about Ayn Rand being influenced by a socialist upbringing is beneath you. I enjoyed your little essay but I am sure with a little time you could have improved the title.

44 posted on 12/29/2001 12:12:43 AM PST by Objectivism USA
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To: Starmaker
I have read and re-read most of Ayn Rand's works. I think she's a great thinker and I have adopted much of her philosophy. Perhaps the greatest contribution she has made to my life was to free me from worrying about what others thought about me. Now I can be totally honest with people with how I think without feeling any guilt. But she had some flaws in her character and philosophy as well. After all, she is human too. Thus I find those in her inner circle ("The Collective") such as Peikoff to be sort of creepy because they are so slavishly devoted to her and her philosophy that they seem to have no minds of their own. BTW, Alan Greenspan was a member of "The Collective" as well. Not many are aware of that.
47 posted on 12/29/2001 12:13:01 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Starmaker
Atlas Dined: An Ayn Rand Spoof by Huck
55 posted on 12/29/2001 12:13:24 AM PST by Huck
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To: Starmaker
The Objectivists hold to the irrational theory of evolution which is that man somehow evolved from the primordial ooze. They dismiss as a superstition the more rational idea, in my opinion, that the creation of life, with all of its incredible facets, had to involve a supernatural and divine aspect.

I have long wondered why these two concepts are mutually exclusive. Anyone willing to entertain the possibility that a supernatural and divine aspect was the catalyst for man emerging from the 'ooze'?

57 posted on 12/29/2001 12:13:30 AM PST by GSWarrior
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To: Starmaker
Dang. Looks like an interesting topic, but I just can't take seriously anything that uses "G-d," either in the common way as a blasphemy, or in the "look-at-me-look-at-me-I'm-holier-than-GOD!" pseudo-pious way.

And I guess the author denies the truth of Jesus' deity, since he says "Christmas" and not "Chr-stmas." Right?

Silly practice.

Dan
What Is Biblical Christianity?

67 posted on 12/29/2001 12:14:14 AM PST by BibChr
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To: Starmaker
The Randian brand of 'Objectivism' is nothing other than Capitalistic Anarchy. Her books made it clear.

I used to get the Rand newsletter...personally, I found the Randians pretty freakish and was please when they stopped sending it to me.

I do, however, consider 'We the Living' one of the 10 great books.

72 posted on 12/29/2001 12:14:29 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Justin Raimondo
FYI!
75 posted on 12/29/2001 12:14:39 AM PST by Miss Antiwar
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To: Starmaker
The Objectivists hold to the irrational theory of evolution which is that man somehow evolved from the primordial ooze. They dismiss as a superstition the more rational idea, in my opinion, that the creation of life, with all of its incredible facets, had to involve a supernatural and divine aspect.

This is the best part of the article. It shows the divisions between christian conservatives and the Rand flavor of conservatives. The two wings of the republican party are made up of all different sorts of these two groups. Rand's followers won a big battle to open trade with china and don't think its the liberal democrats who only see this as a good thing. All up and down wallstreet you could hear the cheers of victory.
119 posted on 12/29/2001 12:16:24 AM PST by Libertarian_4_eva
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To: Starmaker
"His utopian idea of happiness seems to be a world where man is not fettered by such obstacles as guilt or worry about anything but the here and now."

Once again, the Quasi-Intellectual trying to control human emotions. Humbug and Pitooi.

123 posted on 12/29/2001 12:16:27 AM PST by JusticeLives
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To: Starmaker
This is simply a rant by a semi-conscious religious freak. He couldn't really appreciate the ideas Ayn Rand wrote of and continue to avoid thinking past his religious-conservative nose now could she?

He starts with: "Ayn Rand...was a great advocate of free market capitalism and a significant anti-communist...". I wish conservatives were stronger advocates of free market capitalism. Why after two decades of mostly Republican controlled administrations are taxes the highest in peace-time history?

Methinks Charles should spend more time looking at his own parties' philosophy.


209 posted on 12/30/2001 11:48:34 AM PST by Boucheau
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To: Starmaker
Has anyone seen ever a pic of Charles 'Chuck' A. Morse? If not, here you go:

(Notice how he at least put on his best wife-beater T-shirt)

SDI SSgt. Hartman: "...A jelly donut?! Are you allowed to eat jelly donuts Private Morse?!"

Private Morse: "Sir, no sir!"

SDI SSgt. Hartman: "And why NOT, Private Morse?!"

Private Morse: "Sir, because I'm too heavy si--"

SDI SSgt. Hartman: "BECAUSE YOU ARE A DISGUSTING FATBODY, PRIVATE MORSE!!!"

230 posted on 01/16/2002 3:48:04 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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