Mark Steyn: War between America and Europe

The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 12/27/2001 | Mark Steyn

[Bahbah]

LOL. Now I have a picture of you plopping your tape recorder right in the middle of the table. "Mr. Steyne, may I ask you what you think about .....?" Hilarious.

[knighthawk]

I will look it up for you. I know that it happened in Rotterdam and/or Den Haag (The Hague). In Rotterdam there is one of the largest(or maybe the largest) mosque in the EU.

In the meanwhile look here for the hold they have got in those cities.

[junta]

Thank you

[NewAmsterdam]

There is only one answer to your nonsense: f**k you.

[NewAmsterdam]

Thank you for your reply. As I said earlier I think reality is more complicated than the way it is presented. The Rapid Reaction Force is exactly one of those things that the American elite seems to want. After all, the US has - quite rightly - complained that Europe doesn't do enough for defense. Now Europeans are willing to do more, but they then want more control over their efforts. That is why it will have a loose relationship to NATO. Mind you, as far as I can see it is a paper tiger. Only when Germany will be allowed to build its own forces again will we have a strong 'European' force, but that path is difficult for obvious reasons.

French ministers will always make snide remakrs about the US. Such is life, but it does not necessarily mean that the French are 'anti-American'. Germany calling for a federal Europe? I hate it, but I think most in DC are perfectly happy with the idea. After all, the EU could never have come about without some sort of American support.

Of course Arafat is a dictator. But it was the Clinton administration who propelled him inot this crucial role of peace-maker; it wasn't Europe that did that. So for Europeans it seems a bit hypocritical now, when the American administration disowns the man.

The Euro: most people don't like it but take it as a fait accompli. My own view is very sceptical; I never wanted it in the first place. But now that it is here, I have to hope it will work. No-one can expect from even the greatest sceptic that he hopes that his own future will end in war and poverty. The decline in value against the dollar is not in itself a bad thing. Currencies go up and down all the time; the market will determine the value of a currency. Cheaper currencies have advantages as do strong ones. I think that credibility is more important than value vis-a-vis other currencies. You are right on the money, so to speak: the question of fiscal discipline in times of recession will make or break the whole show. It will require Germany pulling her weight, but no doubt that will lead to a chorus complaining about resurgent fascism and more such nonsense.

[NewAmsterdam]

Thanks for your remarks. Of course, too generous welfare systems are bad. No incentives, demoralisation etc. Yet, quite a bit has changed over the past 15 years or so. The idea that you can get away with doing nothing for life and live happily is a thing of the past. Still, a lot needs to be done, but as ever, European countries are slow. There is something in the European psyche after a century of warfare that is afraid of too radical change. What if it goes wrong? I know it sounds 'woosy' (spelling?) but I do think that that explains part of it. Still, the intentions are to make Europe a competitive and prosperous economic area (which it already is to a large extent). But it will not be politicians making that Europe; it will be European people building their own lives, as always. And will they be getting the chance and freedom they need to do it? That is a huge question, given that the EU is so full of dead-beat time-servers who all get paid huge salaries tax-free.

[NewAmsterdam]

Come to think of it: f**k off is a better reply.

[madrussian]

Europe is a toilet, and should be treated as such.

And this is a distilled cristallized sentiment of a hate-Europe Israel-firster. For you, America is not a country founded on European Christian traditions, but a vehicle to use to revenge your grievances and to fight your wars and benefit your kin in Israel.

Hey, it helps when you are that open. I wish more Americans would realize what motivates you.

[madrussian]

However, I think some European governments reward non-work too much which is demoralizing to the rest.

The reason, I think, is in historically greater homogeniuity of the European population, which used to bring the sense of community and belonging. In such an environment, people didn't mind supporting each other.

Now, with rising third-worldization and resulting loss of coheseveness and unity, European countries will probably move to the American model.

It's not a fundamental difference, it's simply different history.

[xm177e2]

In fact, Republicans support Israel despite the Jews

I think Steyn is wrong here, the neocon Republicans are big on Jews (and many ARE Jews), and if you listen to the fundamentalists talk about Israel, they generally support the Jews as their (misguided) brethren, who have prophecies to fulfill (like rebuilding the Temple when the Messiah comes). Only Buchanan's isolationist wing contains some (not much) anti-Jewish elements, but they broke off and left the Republican party.

[Pokey78]

All have been added.

[xm177e2]

Maybe Steyn also means the fact that so many American Jews are so overtly liberal, but Republicans support Israel anyway.

[NeoCaveman]

More wisdom from Mark Steyn. Please add me to the Ping List

[xm177e2]

Please add me to the "Steyn List"

[Pokey78]

Both of ya'll have been added.

[staytrue]

Americans should remember their heritage and culture, which are essentially European Christian

I think american culture is very different from european culture. Americans are optimistic, emphasis individuality, upward mobility, believe in a relatively classless society, tolerant of almost anything that does not invade their particular space, believe that their destiny is controlled only by themselves. Europeans are cynical, pessimistic, locked in class structures and believe their destiny is mostly predetermined.

[madrussian]

I think you exaggerate. There are differences between all countries, America and Europe are more similar than they are different. While there are slight differences on the surface, the core is the same.

[ambrose]

What is it like to be so filled with hatred? To be so consumed with hate that you side with America's enemies?

[ambrose]

There is only one answer to your nonsense: f**k you.

How eloquent. I am sorry to have interrupted your Euro techno dance music, sexual deviancy, and abortions with a dose of reality.