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To: ELS; *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding; JMJ333; Aunt Polgara; AgThorn; IM2Phat4U; toenail...
I am very much "up to speed" on these issues, but I will not debate it here. I do not question whether it is appropriate here, but it is scandalous to the unitiated and could cause some Catholics considerable distress, and weakens the witness of Catholics in general here.

To counterbalance the article here, I recommend Catholics check out these resources:

"Traditionalist" and Schismatic Catholics"

Integrism (Extreme Traditionalists) and Schismatic Views

General / Miscellaneous

ULTRATRADITIONALISTS (website by "Matt1618")
On Liberal and Ultraconservative "Catholicism" (Luke Wadel)
A Prescription Against Traditionalism  (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Apologetics Papers and Critiques of False "Traditionalism" (I. Shawn McElhinney)
The "Remnant" (Mattite) Sect  (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Confusing Culture With 'Tradition' (I. Shawn McElhinney)
THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Was Pope John Paul II Ritually Anointed by a Hindu in India? (James Akin)
Catholic Encyclopedia: OLD CATHOLICS
Old Catholics: False Bishops, False Churches (Anthony Cekada)
Schismatic Traditionalists (Matt C. Abbott)
An Open Letter to Confused Traditionalists (F. John Loughnan)
Traditionalists and the Epistemology of Protestantism: Private Judgment (Stephen Hand)
Traditionalists, Tradition, and Private Judgment  (Stephen Hand)
Detection and Overthrow of the ‘Traditionalist Catholics’ Falsely So-Called (I. Shawn McElhinney, Dr. Art Sippo, and "Matt1618")
ORTHODOXY AND TRADITIONALISM (Gerard V. Bradley)
Christian Unity and the Role of Authority: The Infallibility of the Church and the Pope (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Vatican II
What Went Wrong With Vatican II? (Ralph McInerny)
Vatican II and its Authority (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Making the True Vatican II Our Own (John Saward)
Formal Debate: Was Vatican II an Infallible Council? (Adam Kolasinski vs. Art Sippo)
Was Vatican Council II Voided by Pope Pius II's "Execrabilis"? (F. John Loughnan)
Non-Schismatic Traditionalist, Tridentine / Novus Ordo Latin Mass, and Liturgical Reform Websites and Articles
Traditional Catholic Reflections & Reports ©  (Stephen Hand)
The Pete Vere Homepage (orthodox traditionalist canonist)
Apologetics Papers and Critiques of False "Traditionalism" (I. Shawn McElhinney)
Agenda (William Grossklas; contra-SSPX website)
F. John Loughnan's Page
The Catholic Liturgical Library
Traditional Latin Mass
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi Web Site
Catholic Insight (Mario Derksen)
THE PRIESTLY FRATERNITY OF SAINT PETER
Latin Mass Magazine
The Wanderer Newspaper
JAMES LIKOUDIS' PAGE
A Bill of Rights for Orthodox Catholics (Mark J. Kelly)
Registry of Papally-Approved Traditional (Tridentine) Masses
Latin Mass (Novus Ordo) Directory for the USA
And to the Latin Mass (Tim Padgett; Time, June 7, 1999)
"How My Parish Fought Off an Invasion" (Edward C. Petty)
A New "Way" for the Church (Opus Dei) (Antonio Gaspari)
''Changes in Mass for Greater Apostolate'' (Pope Paul VI audience)
''The Mass is the Same'' (Pope Paul VI audience)
In Defense of the Novus Ordo Mass ("Matt 1618")
A Short Primer on the Mass (I. Shawn McElhinney)
The Red Herring of Communion in the Hand  (I. Shawn McElhinney and "Matt1618")
A Micro Look at the Pauline Mass (I. Shawn McElhinney)
THE PAULINE LITURGY: A TRUE RESTORATION (I. Shawn McElhinney)
THE ALTAR AND THE DIRECTION OF LITURGICAL PRAYER (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger)
THE MASS OF VATICAN II  (Joseph Fessio, S.J.)
ARE WE BALKANIZING CATHOLIC WORSHIP?  (Helen Hull Hitchcock)
VANDALIZING CHURCHES (James Hitchcock)
Review of Coomaraswamy's The Problems With the New Mass (William G. Most)
Liturgical Abuses: The Church Speaks
Cardinal Ratzinger on the Collapse of the Catholic Liturgy (Paul Likoudis)
Historical Considerations on Communion on the Hand (Fr. Paul McDonald)
Rethinking Communion in the Hand  (Jude A. Huntz)
SSPX / Lefebvrites
Introduction to the Lefebvrist Schism (James Akin)
Decree of Excommunication on Marcel Lefebvre
The Protocol of Agreement of the Vatican and Archbishop Lefebvre
Archbishop Lefebvre and the Declaration on Religious Liberty (William G. Most)
Ecclesia Dei (Pope John Paul II on the schismatic Society of St. Pius X)
Agenda (William Grossklas; anti-SSPX website)
A Canonical History of the Lefebvrite Schism  (Peter J. Vere)
My Journey Out of the Lefebvre Schism: All Tradition Leads to Rome (Pete Vere)
A Case Study In Modern-Day Donatism (I. Shawn McElhinney)
SSPX Still in Schism (Vatican Pronouncement: 24 August 1996)
Is the Society of St. Pius X in Schism? A Recent Response from Rome (F. John Loughnan)
Status of Society of St. Pius X Masses (Pontifical Commission on Ecclesia Dei)
Status of SSPX (Pontifical Commission on Ecclesia Dei)
The Flat Earth Society and SSPX-Type "Traditionalists" (F. John Loughnan)
Overview of SSPX
Society of St. Pius X Gets Sick (Thomas W. Case)
Schism, Obedience, & SSPX (John Beaumont & John Walsh)
Marcel Lefebvre: Signatory to Dignitatis Humanae (Brian Harrison)
Archbishop Lefebvre and Canons 1323 & 1324 (Peter John Vere)
MY REASONS FOR WITHDRAWING SUPPORT FROM THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X (F. John Loughnan)
Lefebvrism: Jansenism Revisited? (Anthony Fisher) + SSPX Type Traditionalists  (F. John Loughnan)
Sedevacantism
Do-it Yourself Popes: The Wacky World of Sedevacantists (Michael Petek)
A One-Step Refutation of Sedevacantism (I. Shawn McElhinney)

Main Index & Search | Church | Papacy | Saints | Tradition | Purgatory | Justification | Sacramentalism | Mary | Penance | Eucharist | Development | Trinity | Creation | Misc. Theology | Book & Search Links | Eastern Orthodoxy | Ecumenism | Catholic Documents & General/Apologetic Websites

Compiled by Dave Armstrong. Thorough URL Revision: 4 March 2001. Updated: 14 December 2001.

12 posted on 12/23/2001 6:26:59 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
it is scandalous to the uninitiated and could cause some Catholics considerable distress, and weakens the witness of Catholics in general here.

Well said. I wish I had your knowledge in this area, next time I will flag you, who are much better equipped than I to handle this problem.

14 posted on 12/23/2001 6:52:11 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: proud2bRC
You have new mail, young Jedi.
15 posted on 12/23/2001 7:31:34 PM PST by Dr. Good Will Hunting
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To: proud2bRC
#12
Thanks for the reference library . there is no way that I could absorb all that information in one session. Anyway, thanks for the links .
16 posted on 12/23/2001 7:32:18 PM PST by dadwags
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To: proud2bRC; ELS
Dude!

First time I came across this image!

Apologetics with ATTITUDE!

 

With respect to the article itself, I definitely see a need for continued vigilance and reform within the Church itself but I'm not convinced that infighting among the two most orthodox divisions within the Church is the most productive path.  There are plenty of infidels out there to turn towards righteousness before we start splitting hairs.

27 posted on 12/23/2001 8:58:04 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: proud2bRC
I do not question whether it is appropriate here, but it is scandalous to the unitiated and could cause some Catholics considerable distress, and weakens the witness of Catholics in general here.

---

Kind of a contradictory statement there, I think. You believe it's scandalous and weakens the witness of Catholics in general (here) -- that certainly sounds like you're questioning whether or not its appropriate. That said, I found the article rather insightful and useful as a synopsis of the current flap between Catholics who feel more affinity for the Tridentine rite rather than the Novus Ordo. Although I think the author is a bit harsh in his assessment of the Vatican's part in all of this. He seems to insinuate almost nefarious motives, which I object to.

30 posted on 12/23/2001 9:13:17 PM PST by Proud2BAmerican
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To: proud2bRC
Thank you for all of those links. I certainly don't agree with everything Mr. Ferrara said, but I think his main points regarding the difference of standards to be met in the two cases of "schism" are good points to consider.
47 posted on 12/24/2001 10:55:58 AM PST by ELS
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