Massive Indian troops build-up along Pak border

Pakistan News Service (PNS) ^ | 12/23/2001 | Pakistani News Service (PNS)

[Smogger]

Exchange of fire across LoC; Azad Kashmir put on a war footing

Updated on 2001-12-23 11:54:16

ISLAMABAD: India has moved massive numbers of troops to the border with Pakistan and the disputed boundary in Kashmir "in a very aggressive posture", a Pakistani military official said on Saturday.

[gwynapnudd]

Seems like a huge overreaction to an ambiguous terrorist attack. Looks like the real motive is to get the Pakis to scurry and reveal their nuclear locations, because Israel can not survive a nuclear strike.

This couldn't be the same group behind the Indian attack that was caught with grenades and Glocks in the Mexican congress recently , could it?

Getting Pakistan to reveal the location of it's nukes

[Smogger]

If India were rational, they would provide whatever evidence they have to Pakistan so that they could arrest anyone responsible. Instead, India is playing right into the hands of the terrorists.

I believe they have asked the Pakistani government to arrest and detain those they believe are involved. In addition they have asked them the close the offices of the group (or groups) that India believes are involved. These groups are known terrorist organizations (they are on the US SD list of terrorist organizations) and Pakistan has declined.

[Smogger]

We've seen some evidence that Pakistanis are responsible but no evidence that it was an action approved by the Pakistan government.

Was there any evidence that the September 11th attacks were approved by the Taliban? Maybe your not clear. The United States has created the model by which terrorism will be fought the world round. First you ask for the harboring country to arrest and expel the terrorist. When they decline you attack them. Period. For the United States to say otherwise is hypocrisy.

[Dog Gone]

Yes, they have demanded that. But how would you respond if a foreign nation demanded that you arrest some citizens or close down some organizations without providing you any evidence to support it? Pakistan won't, and no nation would.

The better question is, why won't India give Pakistan that evidence?

I can't think of a good reason, but I can think of some bad ones.

[Dog Gone]

The United States has created the model by which terrorism will be fought the world round.

That's not true, and subsequent actions by us will confirm what I'm saying.

It was the model for Afghanistan.

It's not going to be the model for Iraq, or Yemen, or wherever we go next.

If India has some specific names of people they want extradited for these attacks, they should name them. I don't think they've done that. It's not even clear what India's demands are.

[OK]

Islam - 1.2 billion versis China - 1.2 billion versis India - 1.1 billion.

Except in this case China is backing Pakistan.

I don't think China would get involved in a war between the two unless they were in a larger conflict that invoved Taiwan, N. Korea, etc.

[OK]

The only possible outcome is that one side loses or both sides do, with the latter being far more likely.

We have a lot of misconceptions about nuclear war. It would not mean the end of India to have a nuclear war with Pakistan at this time. IMHO, the Indian government and army would still be able to push the border of Pakistan back to the Indus river and survive. I don't think they would cross the Indus, since the mountains start there. They would take Kashmir and keep it, unless China butts in.

Japan suffered two nuclear bombs and they are doing just fine.

[hsszionist]

The chances of a wider conflict have gone up, with U.S. forces engaged in combat around the world. Our fleet is weakened in the Pacific and the Med., the Islamics will probably do something Islamic and provoke action from Israel. The mushrooms could be sprouting worldwide very shortly, if the Islamics are not put down hard.

[Dog Gone]

I don't think India could capture Pakistani population centers and control them for long. There are 140 million Pakistanis, almost none of whom would be content under Indian rule.

I wasn't suggesting that nuclear war would destroy either side. What I was suggesting is that such a war would leave the winner with some grievous losses and precious little gained.

[OK]

That is probably true. Islamics talk big, but against overwhelming power they back off and stay quiet. That is why I favor taking out Saddam and his boys soon.

We can be sure that China and N. Korea have had time to reconsider any aggressive plans they might have had after witnessing the quick demise of the Taliban government.

[OK]

I don't think India could capture Pakistani population centers and control them for long.

If it was a nuclear war, there would no longer be any Pakistani population centers. IMHO, India could handle keeping Pakistan over to the Indus under control. The British did it for years.

If Pakistan popped off some nukes on India, the Indians would have the motivation and drive to keep the Islamics in Pakistan subdued for at least 2 generations to come.

[meenie]

Kashmir holds no value for China. The danger for us is the Chinese to think this is the time to take Tiawan. They are such peaceful allies to us, I don't think they would risk making us unhappy by attacking Tiawan.(sarcasm alert)

[Dog Gone]

A lot has changed in Pakistan since the British were there. They probably have the most heavily-armed citizenry in the world today.

I don't believe either side has a first strike capability of eliminating the other's population centers. I hope we don't find out for sure.

I don't think either side is willing to wage an all-out war in order to find out. I think the upcoming week will be the critical period.

India should cooperate with Pakistan to find the people responsible for the Parliament attack, and Pakistan should aggressively crack down on them. That would be the responsible thing to do. Whether either of these nations are truly responsible, I don't know.

[OK]

I don't believe either side has a first strike capability of eliminating the other's population centers

Agreed. India is not going to use them first, but if Pakistan does, India will respond by taking out the major Pakistani cities. Pakistan does not have enough nukes to take out all of the major population centers of India, not even close. This is the worst case scenario, and in that case India would prevail and rule the area to the Indus for many years to come.

[Pay now bill Clinton]

Should provide plenty of things for the American troops permanently stationed in Pakistan to do. Of course, if there is nuclear war between the two states, the troops will have about as much of a fighting chance as the WTC victims. But hey, putting our troops in mortal danger is the way we support them, isn't it?

[monday]

"If India were rational, they would provide whatever evidence they have to Pakistan so that they could arrest anyone responsible."

Wake up, wake up. They have given all the evidence they have to Pakistan. They know the groups responsible and have told Pakistan that they should be closed down. But Pakistan does nothing because they know they don't have to. The US will keep pressure on India not to attack. Anyway this is all academic since Pakistan has admitted that they give moral support to the terrorists in Pakistani Kashmir. It is clear to everyone but terrorist sympathizers whose side Pakistan is on.

[Arleigh]

Just as long there is no mushroom clouds I don't care if they have a war.

As a Baby Boomer, I have lived under the threat of nuclear war my entire life, and must admit to having a certain morbid curiousity about what it would actually be like. And the Sub-Continent IS about as far away as you can get from me and still be on the same planet. Not that I'm saying I WANT to see a nuclear war, but if there WAS one, (and I'm speaking just hypothetically, mind you)it would be kinda kewl. In a very bad sort of way, of course.

[qwertyz]

Anything that weakens the current Paki regime strengthens the most militant elements--and they will use nukes.

[glockmeister40]

I think it's some posturing on the part of India. They may make a border incursion, just as retaliation for the parliment bombing. I think both of them are kept on a pretty short leash by the US. If India or Pak pi$$ us off, we can deport all their software workers here in the US, thus slamming both their economies.

[mikeIII]

"It would not mean the end of India to have a nuclear war with Pakistan at this time. IMHO, the Indian government and army would still be able to push the border of Pakistan back to the Indus river and survive. "

Even without nukes involved, this will result in the disintegration of Pakistan into its various ethnic areas. I don't think India wants to take over Pakistan and "govern" it. Its a country in turmoil and blowing up from within. With the exception of its close ally China, it has problems with all its neighbors, including Iran. Extending all the way to Indus would be nice, since the Indo-Aryan culture was born there and is now under Islam, thanks to the spread of Islam. Today, Kashmir represents the frontier of the spread of Islam in the sub-continent that India is resisting.

India's goal would be to weaken Pakistan and strike at its Islamist centers and camps. When its all over, India will gain control over Kashmir and a few other areas linked ethnically to its own population, Afghanistan may may end up with some Pusthun areas, Iran with the Baluchis and Pakistan with what's left.