That's pretty pessimistic. :-) Actually I don't think it is true on average. On the other hand, you seem to be saying, no matter how unhappy you are, stay there, because we can't guarantee you happiness elsewhere. Perhaps you shouldn't be asking me this. Perhaps you should seek out friends and relatives who've been divorced and see if they now view their first divorce and second marriage as a mistake. It is not my impression that very many want to go back to spouse #1.
"There is actually a large societal pressure to marry and stay married."
Sorry, I totally don't see that. Where do you? On television? No. In Music? No. Movies? No. The local clubs or bars? Nope. Even (in many) churches? Nope. I'm not meaning to be flippant, but if you see this I would appreciate being directed to the source.
I can't believe you don't feel (haven't felt) the pressure from relatives to get married, have kids, etc. Obviously friends and family have the most influence on us.
society should take a more serious stand on the value of this basic and foundationally important commitment.
Just what sort of enforcement or regulation are you referring to?
Not pessimistic, realistic. And I'm fairly sure it's not just the area I'm in, or the people I happen to know. I can just look up and down my street and see the reasons for calling this realistic.
Perhaps you should seek out friends and relatives who've been divorced and see if they now view their first divorce and second marriage as a mistake.
That's exactly where I'm getting my (what you call) pessimism. I've watched them, listened to them, held them as they cried, cringed when they went on to yet the next...
It is not my impression that very many want to go back to spouse #1.
Good impression.:-) They also don't go back to #2, etc. However, it's not always marriage, it's can just as well be "live-ins". But with that said, I've known some that have wanted to go back, but weren't able to, due to the pain and destruction in which they had allowed it to end. There are many instances where it's a case of not knowing how good they had it till they didn't have it anymore.
Perhaps you shouldn't be asking me this.
But I wasn't asking you anything. Except:
isn't it true that even "good marriages" have ups and downs, conflictual periods that, if handled wrong can make it "appear" to have been a "poor marriage" from the start?
And:
Better than what? What the relationship may be going through (and probably in need of being worked through) at the moment?
I meant these, not so much as questions, but more as points.
This one:At what point does it become "cheating"?
Was just a paraphrase of your earlier one.
What I am asking is when is it "cheating."
:) I can't believe you don't feel (haven't felt) the pressure from relatives to get married, have kids, etc. Obviously friends and family have the most influence on us.
Oh ho! You bet! But in the end, *I* am responsible for the choices that I make, even the ones I make under the pressure of others. Luckily family and friends are more apt to want you to marry right, whereas society as a whole somewhat winks and gives the implication that marraige falls under the catagory of, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again". I think this is very harmful.
Just what sort of enforcement or regulation are you referring to?
I make no references to enforcement or regulation of marriage. I only advocate the position that society not accept marriages as being as disposable as furniture you feel no longer fits in a room. In the past, marriage was held to a higher standard. Families and society were more stable as a result, and there was less need for "Daddy" government to "raise" the children through welfare.
On the other hand, you seem to be saying, no matter how unhappy you are, stay there, because we can't guarantee you happiness elsewhere.
Not at all. I'm just saying it's better to make darn sure you really have tried all the alternatives, all the possibilities of improving things (and sometimes that means just riding out a particularly stormy time with loyalty and commitment, until the skies clear again), rather than turning on a puter and taking the easy way of "chatting" with some new option. New relationships are exciting, and the incentive to work on the one that is not so "new and shiny" and happens to be taking some turbulance, drops to nil. If, in the end, the marriage is lost, take a breather till it's realized why (even if it means owning up that you make really lousy choices). The ones that go on to the more happy,fulfilling, and lasting second marriages have almost always gone through this time out first.