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To: jlogajan
Well, there is that point of view that you can't be tempted if you never find out that there is something better out there.

Better than what? What the relationship may be going through (and probably in need of being worked through) at the moment?

I think, in society today, there are just way too many pulls that can be inadvertantly stumbled into, which are allowed to take the place of the more difficult commitment involved in struggling through the conflicts that are a natural part of the ebb and flow of a human relationship. In this instance, then I would have to say, "Yes, even to look is bad". Bad for the happiness of those involved (aside from any moral rules you or I may think apply), if for no other reason that it is bad for the skills that we need to acquire, eventually, if we are ever to have a relationship that will last.

There has to be some level of commitment. Even if, after all is said and done, the marriage ends as a result, to face up to what is really going on, rather than reaching for yet another perception of a "good relationship" will be better for all the individuals involved, in the long run.

That can keep a relatively happy marriage happy, but it can also keep a battered spouse from seeking an exit.

I'm not disagreeing that this is true, as well. I just think that too many use this kind of reasoning to give their own laziness a pass. And I don't think, in the sum of things, this mindset is only harmful to the individuals, look at what it has done to society's idea of the family today.

Everyone has to make that call for themselves.

Of course they do. But that doesn't deny that there IS a right and a wrong, or a good and an evil choice.

At what point does it become "cheating"?
To the individual, themselves? Or to the spouse? That is what I would have to ask

53 posted on 12/23/2001 11:22:26 AM PST by SusanUSA
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To: susangirl
There has to be some level of commitment. Even if, after all is said and done, the marriage ends as a result, to face up to what is really going on, rather than reaching for yet another perception of a "good relationship" will be better for all the individuals involved, in the long run.

That's very logical. No one thinks like that though. People get married out of love, but also people get married out of societal pressure. They are in the relationship for a bad reason, and good reasoning isn't their strong suit. All they have are vague feelings of unhappiness or emptyness. They are unfulfilled. They might conciously resist admitting what their impulses are telling them.

And I don't think, in the sum of things, this mindset is only harmful to the individuals, look at what it has done to society's idea of the family today.

I would have to say that however you value societal interest in family matters, you shouldn't stay in an unhappy marriage for the sake of society.

"Everyone has to make that call for themselves." Of course they do. But that doesn't deny that there IS a right and a wrong, or a good and an evil choice.

Well, it makes the discovery of "right and wrong" pretty darn subjective, then.

Yeah, people make stupid choices all the time. Sometimes those stupid choices are affairs, or divorces. Sometimes those stupid choices are unsuitable marriages. There really is only one person who knows whether you should be in a particular marriage, and that one person is you. Nobody else can make that call.

I think a lot of people can alter their behavior to make a marriage work -- it's easy in some respects, simply submit yourself to the will and whim of the other person. But to anyone who wants to live a self-respecting life, that is not the right answer. And you only have so much control over a spouse. If they don't want to change, then happiness will not be yours. You get to choose then, live with it, or bolt.

There is actually a large societal pressure to marry and stay married. Given the fickleness of humans, the divorce rate is actually surprisingly low. So I think a LOT more people are unhappy and unfulfilled in their marriages than actually ever divorce.

At the end of their lives, should I feel happy for them that they stuck it out in an unhappy relationship, rather than broke free and found something better? I find it hard to get excited about the former.

56 posted on 12/23/2001 9:21:17 PM PST by jlogajan
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