Posted on 12/21/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by onedoug
Which one (or more) of these descriptions and effects of eternal punishment (hell) do you choose to believe:
Darkness (Matt.8:12)
Weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt.*:12; 13:50; 22:13; 24:51)
Furnace of fire (Matt.13:50)
Eternal fire (Matt.25:41)
Unquenchable fire (Luke 3:17)
Bottomless pit (Rev.9:1-11)
Torment forever, no rest day or night (Rev.14:10-11)
Lake of fire (Rev.19:20; 21::8)
Black darkness (Jude 13)
Different degrees of punishment (Matt. 11:21-24; Luke 12:47-48)
Final eternal state/no second chance (Isa.66:24; Mark 9:44-48; Matt.25:46; 2 Thess.1:9)
Separation from God and his glory (2 Thess.1:9)
I tend to think she is not a real deep teacher. She uses the word "me, me, me" too much and most of it is about her. Not a meat and potatoes kind of person who indeed would be lost in the "real" world of the missionaries in the bad part of the world.
My son and I watched her a lot until we found Kenneth Copeland and the truths he teaches.
Lady in GA
The Book of Jude teaches on self indulgement not basic Christain doctrine disagreements. Please read it in it's right context before using it as a wholesale weapon to accuse those who do not follow your denomination's teachings word for word.
A good book to read for the Christian is Ephesians. It was written to preven problems in the church as a whole by encouraging the body of Christ to maturity in Him (a key phrase, especially, "in Him"). In the first chapter, for example, Paul tells all the things we have "in Him, some of which are:"
1. Chosen by God
2. Redemption through His blood;
3. the forgiveness of our trespasses;
4. we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestine
5. after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
In Chapter 4, Paul exhorts to the brethren to unity, "entreat[ing] you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called (2) with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love (3) being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is so much more in Ephesians about building up the saints, loving one another, putting on the full armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day . . . to stand firm.
Paul teaches us that love seeks reconciliation like God did with us, that we are to live in a way that reflects God's light, which exposes darkness and evil. And the greatest evil is the lack of love.
Many souls are in heaven because of TBN and those that make fun and critize it will have to answer for it one day!
The sources you have accusing Graham of apostacy are mere jokes. Interviews and statements taken out of context. His position on the Pope in no way reveres the Pope but rather that he views the Pope as someone who sees himself as an evangelist of sorts.
His interview with a secular source is something that you deem credible? Have you ever listened to Graham speak about hell? I assure you he has spoken of it quite literally and does so with great conviction that it is the alternative for those who do not accept Christ.
As for my statements to you, please refer to Matt 23:33. Instead of skipping straight to verse 33 read the entire chapter as it deals with Pharisaism. A most interesting read I assure you. The part in verse 13 about "shutting up the kingdom of heaven from men". I also think you should read verse 27 as it deals with being whitewashed on the outside and yet full of impurity on the inside and having hearts of hypocrisy. My, I would hate to be the one to "crush one with impossible religious demands and not lift a finger to ease those burdens". Find that one yourself. I assure you it isn't in Corinthians or Timothy. I also quoted Proverbs 13:10.
FTR,I do seek the truth just not the truth as told by David Cloud, a man caught in his own lies.
Is she a Dr. Gene Scott, however? Maybe...or is she a RObert Tilton...
I agree with you on this one. I prefer to let those who stand in mockery of God stand alone. God will use whomever He pleases to deliver His message by whatever means He so chooses to do so with.
Is this what you were referring to?
I think God is more jealous for Truth than you have noticed.
And no, it's not "faith in faith." That is anti-faith gibberish. It is faith in the Word of GOD, because ONLY the Word has power---faith in anything else is useless. And to keep calling faith "name it and claim it" is like calling Catholics "papists." Clever, but erroneous in the extreme.
By far, the "faith" people I know seem to know more of the Bible than the Baptists and others I knew for years who were reknowned as "Bible scholars." But that's just my experience.
I have also heard Joyce Meyer say this. One time was especially funny when she quoted the next scripture she was going to read, but turned to the wrong page and began reading the wrong scripture. She realized this midway through, laughed, and said something like, "see, I told you you've got to check up on what I'm telling you is in the Bible." Everyone laughed, she especially at herself.
I"m waiting for the flamers. I stated it wrong but I know i am going to heaven anyway!
Excuse me???
See Jude 3: "The Faith once for all delivered to the saints" is a "recognized body of beliefs" about who God is and what he is doing. In case you don't know it, that is talking about "the essential doctrines" that any church must embrace if it wants to be called a legitimate "Christian" church.
These are the unique doctrines that separate the Christian religion from all other religions.
To step outside of those unique doctines and teach something else, you are stepping outside the Christian religion and teaching FALSE doctrine while calling it "Christian".
Those who claim to speak for God and lead people astray by teaching a different God and a different gospel (anything other than the Christian body of beliefs / essentials beliefs of the Christian religion), are false teachers and Jude says in verse 13 that the worst punishment that God metes out will be their fate.
In verse 3, God (through Jude) is commanding his people to "contend" (strenuous effort) for that unique body of beliefs (THE FAITH) that was once for all entrusted to them so as to prevent false teachers from harming his church.
You may scoff and brush such "strenuous effort" off as unimportant "doctrinal disagreements", but that only tells the world that you don't understand the difference between essential and non-essential doctrines.
There ARE no "doctrinal disagreements" in a truly orthodox Christian church over the "essential" doctrines. Those are set. The squabbles are always over non-essential (meaning non-salvational) doctrines such as baptism and how it should be performed, etc.
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