Posted on 12/21/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by onedoug
In fact the NIV says: "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says."
Now, the other argument going on here concerning women, had to do with their hair. I quoted McGee up above as saying that contrary to what Viva was saying, God does not command women to have long hair, Paul wrote only that it is preferable that women have long hair. Why? Because the prostitutes then have their heads shaved. Paul said that the women of Corinth should not have short hair; that McGee said it was solely directed toward the women of Corinth, not a blanket statement to all women, forever, to have long hair.
You're sure? I would LOVE to see that Scriptural support. Please provide it, will you?
Just as David would not touch Saul's garment while recognizing God's annointing on him so should we be extremely discerning about those we criticize. What I mean by discerning is leaning NOT unto our OWN understanding and fleshly interpretations but only by what the Holy Spirit teaches and shows us.
I, too, would require you to provide evidence of these teachings. Not proof from another's website discounting these ministers as heretics or false teacher's but 1. proof that each of these persons have actually said what you claim they do and 2. that their teachings in absolute context to their entire messages, from which these statements are derived, are indeed contrary to what the Word of God says.
The reason that I would require proof is that without it you are merely slandering those who teach in a capacity that is possibly above your ability to grasp. IOW, they have reached a spiritual maturity that is above that of your own. I cannot and will not merely accept your argument because you say it is so.
In the next place, the link in #252 ("HERE") does not take us to Viva's #201. It takes us right to Matchett's own #251!
It seems to me that you have made a mistake worth admitting. This is important for the maintenance of peace on the thread. I think you have gotten too agitated to keep the posts straight.
In the next place, I would be interested in seeing your further comments about Matchett's #251. I don't know anything about Joyce Meyer, but if Matchett is correct in saying that Meyer has endorsed the Word of Faith movement, that's pretty ominous to me. Is Matchett correct? And if so, what do you think about that crowd?
Are you so impressed with Joyce Meyer that you can't believe she could make an enormous blunder? For my own part, I reserve final judgment, but something really foul is going on here. Folks are getting too agitated. And I respectfully submit that you are one of those folks.
Like I said earlier, we need to cool off.
I am sure that you will absolutely surprised to see who shares heaven with you unless your own vanity and proud interpretations prevent you from going there yourself.
I once had a Baptist minister tell me the same things that you are saying. He told me that the only role women had in his church was to bake for the church bake sales. Later this married Pastor called my married SIL and made lewd propositions to her. I witnessed this as I was at her home and at her prompting picked up on the other line and listened. When I confronted him the "man of God" simply said that he was able to do anything he chose as he was "saved" and that his church was his an no one else's. Needless to say, this man was NOT annointed of God to preach. His messages were condemning and condescending. BTW, the women's Sunday school teacher in the same church clearly had an annointing on her that touched and changed the lives of many COUPLES in that church via the wives sitting under her teaching.
Let me inform you of something. God can and will use anything and anyone He chooses to spread His word. If you discount someone because of his/her appearance you may very well be missing out on your own blessing. Discern the meat of the message not the appearance of the messenger.
What does the biblical doctrine of grace extended by the ONE True God have to do with the UNbiblical teachings of false teachers like Meyer, Hagee, et.al., who don't even believe in that God?
They teach a "different" God.
Since you don't choose to believe me, and refuse to look into it, I'll provide some links for some others reading this who may want to find out. Here are links to those who take God's admonition seriously when he tells his followers, through Jude, to defend the faith and expose false teachers in order to protect the flock of God. This should get you started:
THE PREACHER WHO DOESN’T TELL IT LIKE IT IS - THE TRUTH TWISTING AND TALL TALES OF JOYCE MEYER
Paul's writtings are often confued as commandments. Only GOD or Christ has that authority. His letters were as head of his people or church and his guidelines and recommendations. He plainly states as much in many cases.
I have no doubt that women can minister if called to do so. I also think there is nothing more noble a woman can do in the eyes of GOD than raise their children and manage the home. But I see nowhere in the Bible that it is a sin for a woman to preach or teach.
Pauls writting have lead to many misunderstandings by the nature of them. Some take his teaching on spiritual gifts as absolute must, some see them as signs for that day of their authority, some think the gifts are no longer there. I think they are there for those who need them. But then again if speaking in tounges ect is not present in a church I don't believe it means that church is not Blessed of the LORD. Each church and person is given a portion of that gift and not all have the same gifts. There are many parts to the church within one soverign body that being Christ himself.
I can admit mistakes. My mistake was a typo (yes, at #252, not my typo of 251); every time it takes me to #201, four times now, to "onedoug" by "viva," top of the page. You said you don't know anything about Joyce Meyer, "but if Matchett is correct in saying that Meyer has endorsed the Word of Faith movement, that's pretty ominous . . . Is Matchett correct?" I have never heard her say that. The more important point, however, I have never heard her say anything against sound doctrine. His attacks against her have been unwarranted and unproven.
Later in his teachings Paul made it clear that we are ONE and not seperate.
Eph 3:28 "For there is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".
This teaching was in response to the Judaizers who insisted that all believers must keep the Jewish laws. Paul pointedly projects the basic principle that man ( and *GASP* woman ) is saved by Jesus Christ.
In his letters to the Corinthians who at that particular time was a Roman colony, Paul was emphasizing the problems in the church caused by a cosmopolitan population of Greeks, Romans, and Jews from various parts of the Mediterranean. The situation of the church was so bad that it was considered inferior by even pagan standards. There were problems of gossiping, lasciviousness, harlotry, and many others. Paul's letter to the church at Corinth was in response to a letter from the Corinthian church concerning the situation there.
You write as if I asked you, or anyone else to do that. Good heavens! Have you ever heard of google.com??
Did you notice that the FReeper by the name of "onedoug" inviting other FReepers to tell him "their views" of Joyce Meyer. I took him up on it, since he plainly said he was curious.
At any rate, in my reply #289 below, I have taken the time to make it convenient and provided links to information at three different sources on this subject. And here is another place to find many more links from other sources that will tell you the same thing:
Go HERE and don't get mad at me if you don't have the courage to face the truth.
THE SCRIPTURES
The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant, as recorded in the New Testament, we accept as our infallible guide in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 Thessalonians 2:13)
THE GODHEAD
Our God is One, but manifested in three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Philippians 2:6; John 14:21-26)
God the Father is greater than all, and He is the Source of the Word (Logos) and the Begetter. (John 14:28; John 16:28; John 1:14)
The Son is the flesh-covered Word, the One Begotten, and has existed with the Father from the beginning. (John 1:14; John 1:18; John 1:1)
The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from both the Father and the Son and is eternal. (John 15:26)
MAN, HIS FALL AND REDEMPTION
Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image of God. But through Adam's transgression and fall, sin came into the world. The Bible tells us in Romans 3:23 that "All have sinned and came short of the glory of God." In Romans 3:10 it says, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one." Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the work of the devil, and He gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man back to God. (Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23; Romans 3:10; 1 John 3:8)
Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God. (Ephesians 2:8)
ETERNAL LIFE AND NEW BIRTH
Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that works repentance. The new birth is available to all mankind, and when Jesus Christ is accepted as Savior, salvation takes place. He is born again. His Spirit becomes alive to God eternally. (2 Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 5:12; John 3:3-5)
WATER BAPTISM
Baptism in water is by immersion. It is a direct commandment of our Lord, and it is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12; Acts 8:36-39)
The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted to wit:
"On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."
BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
The baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire is a gift from God. It is promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to those who are believers in this dispensation and is received subsequent to the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of the speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance. (Matthew 3:11; John 14:16-17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:4)
SANCTIFICATION
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive, work of grace, which commences at the time of regeneration and continues until the consummation of salvation. (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
DIVINE HEALING
Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith and by laying on of hands. It is provided in the atonement of Christ, and it is the privilege of every member of the church today. (Mark 16:18; James 5:14-16; 1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 8:17; Isaiah 53:4-5)
RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE RETURN OF OUR LORD
The angels said, "...this same Jesus shall so come in like manner..." (Acts 1:11). His coming is imminent. When He comes, "the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth, as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS; and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years. (Revelation 19:16; Revelation 20:6)
HELL AND ETERNAL RETRIBUTION
The person who physically dies in his sins without Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the lake of fire. Therefore, he has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or for repentance. The lake of fire is literal. The terms "eternal" and "everlasting" used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned in the lake of fire carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence as used in noting the duration of joy and ecstasy of the saints in the presence of God. (Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:15)
You will find direct links in my post #289. Did you miss it?
The one you couldn't seem to find anything on required additional work on your part. You would have to check out each of the links that they provide there and look for her name. I just gave you a LOT more sources to make it easier for you to "not only take my word for it".
"But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God?" [1 Cor. 11:16].
If you start from the beginning of 1 Cor. you will notice that Paul is addressing the brethern. They were the ones trying to keep the women under the law.
By the way the first preacher was a woman name Mary who ran and told the deciples that Jesus had risen. Jesus told her to tell the others. Jesus gave her permission to preach and speak. So much for a woman speaking wouldn't you say, when the boss Himself approved it.
How do you think the false teachers responded when they were exposed back in the day when Jude wrote? I'll bet they whined and claimed to be "unfairly attacked".
BTW! Did you check out my direct links in reply #289?
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