Posted on 12/20/2001 4:39:20 AM PST by frmrda
"Hitting" is NOT "spanking."
"Hitting" is an attack, an assault on others. (Just as "fighting" or "attacking" or "hurting" are NOT "defending yourself") .... and THAT DIFFERENCE is where many liberals are self-righteously hurting themselves, their country, and everybody else (within every law and every social decision) they have invoked since the criminally stupid (but well-intentioned) "child-care" socialism's of Dr. Spock in the late-fifties and early sixties.
Spanking is an EARNED punishment for certain PARTICULARLY WRONG (and dangerous) behavior the cuplrit has been suitably trained about and warned against ahead of time. Spankning is done with self-control, with love, and for a specific reason. Spankning is NOT done when YOU (the giver) are out-of-control or "after-the-fact" ..... "Wait until your father gets home.")
It is fast, quick, quiet, effective and ONLY when deserved for MAJOR (life-threatening) deliberate acts. ("We warned you not to go running into the parking lot....You did it deliberately anyway." "We told you NOT to play with the electric cords in the living room." "We told you NOT to climb on the porch rail." ....and he gets one slap to the rear WITH YOUR BARE HAND.
Why? Because accidently breaking something is NOT a delberate act of destruction. Getting mad and kicking the cat, breaking the goldfish bowl, or hurting his baby sister ARE serious, deliberate acts that HE ust learn the self-control NOT to do.
THAT'S SPANKING. Discipline - applied from you to TEACH HIM self-discipline for the REST OF HIS LIFE.
The liberals will try to tell you that you are "beating" your kid. That you are "hitting" your kid.
"Beating" and "hitting" and "child abuse" are grossly different things. THOSE THINGS ARE WRONG.
"Spanking" (Your hand on his bottom as an immediate and deserved punishment for a specific deliberate act....) is NOT attacking him. (Besides, using your bare hand is naturally going to limit YOUR response ... which is why SPANKING is not done with a baseball bat, a belt, a rod, or a piece of wood.)
(Remember that Biblical warning about the rod....done to prevent something larger from being used. Just like the "Eye for an eye..." clause was writtin to force "equal punishment" for crimes, rather than escalating punishment and a long-lived feud within the tribe.)
An updated version of washing his mouth out with soap, I guess. :-) Both my older children only had to have this method inflicted once. The younger, however ....... we're in counseling -- never thought I'd say that, but by the time we got her she was a hard little nut to crack, (5 1/2) and regular parenting is too easy for her to manipulate. And at 44, I'm not as patient as I used to be.
Please justify PUNISHING somebody BY USING the same action you want him to do in church, at a resturant, or with adult guests in your house.
The Canadian site is:
The U.S. site is at:
As a psychologist, . . .
I have found and observed a few well timed and placed whacks with a firm hand to be very instructive. . .
I believe for younger kids say younger than 6 or so depending on sex and size--hand whacks are usually sufficient. For say 6-12 or thereabouts depending on size and maturity--a simple flat board maybe twice as wide as paint stirring board seems quite fitting.
I don't believe swats should be administered in anger. l
I believe the child must know before hand--when first told about the rule--behavior required--what the consequences will be. Then, the consequences must be administered promptly and without ranchor.
I believe then, the child--depending on temperament and personality etc--needs a few minutes to soberly contemplate the whole scene. Some children may need hugged or held almost immediately but I'd still hesitate at least a minute or so.
THEN THE CHILD NEEDS PLACED ON ONE'S LAP OF SAT BESIDE THE PARENT DOING THE DISCIPLINE IF THE CHILD IS TOO BIG FOR THE LAP--DOUBTFUL--I'm big on laps whenever remotely fitting--AND TALK THROUGH THE WHOLE SITUATION.
Begin with what the child was doing 5-10 minutes before the acting out. . . draw the child out on their own description and memory about what they were doing. Then 2-3 minutes before; then just before--"What were you thinking just before you had the thought to do/not do as you were told?" "Then what did you think?" "And what was your next thought?" "What would have been a better thought?" "Why?"
"What would have been a better way for you to have gotten what you wanted? What would have been a better way to express your feelings/opinions? So next time in that kind of situation, what are some DIFFERENT ways you might think about those things? What are some DIFFERENT ways you might act? Why?"
I believe the child's questions are to be answered matter of factly as though there's full comprehension--making every effort to break the explanation down to the child's level. The following responses may be useful:
--To help you learn to control your actions
--To help you learn to think before you do something
--To help you learn that doing the wrong thing has a painful cost.
--To help you learn that the serious rules Mom and Dad give you are important. We want you to stop when we say "STOP" instead of continuing to run in front of the truck and be killed.
--To help you learn that usually it's a good idea to pay attention to important things we say. That lesson can even help you learn to avoid a lot of troubles in life.
--To help you that remember bad choices often cause pain.
--To help you learn to make better choices.
SOME CHILDREN--especially some boys but not only boys--seem to be made worse by whacking. I believe it takes a wise and prayerful parent to determine such cases. SOMETIMES, such cases are very intolerant of being held on one's lap for a specified length of time.
I don't believe in whacking more than suffient times (3-5) to get the child's attention. . . and NEVER of sufficient strength to cause a bruise or even a red whelt.
If the parent needs to collect themselves for a few minutes BEFORE whacking, THEY MUST DO SO. The child can be put in a chair or told to sit on the toilet with the lid down for a few minutes.
In terms of younger children hitting others--Usually a good whack on the hand they used to hit with is sufficient. Sometimes just thumping their fingers with the index or even middle finger will do well enough.
But often, with younger kids, I belive holding them on one's lap--especially the Father's lap--will do wonders and whacking will not be needed at all. Little boys with an excess of energy and a paucity of self-control usually do not enjoy being restrained on a lap when they are angry, guilty from acting out etc. They may well start to scream loudly.
At that point, I've learned that the lesson my childhood dentist taught my Mother--who taught countless other mothers--is a good and effective strategy--providing there are no unsual breathing problems. . . . When the child starts to scream, I tell them that unless they stop screaming by the time I cound to 3, I will put my hand over their mouth. Often a child will scream louder. I immediately put my hand over their mouth at the end of the count of 3. I then tell the child that if they are able to relax and be calm for a count of 5 or 10 or some such, I'll take my hand away.
If the child is getting hysterical, I may pinch their nose intermittenly until they discover that breathing is more important than screaming. THIS WORKS WONDERS IN PUBLIC PLACES though some intrusive people may feel like assaulting you for doing such a "terrible" thing as helping the child regain control of themselves.
Interestingly, I've used this in many sessions where a young couple have been unable to find or afford a baby sitter. It's usually clear that the 2 or 3 year old is in charge of the family. . . and not really feeling very happy or comfortable with such power though hell-bent to use it to the max.
I usually explain when making the appointment--that either the parents will control the child or I will or they will all leave. It usually begins something like: "Johnny, if you touch that lamp again, I will put you on my lap." Of course, Johnny has to immediately touch the lamp. Johnny immediately goes on my lap and the hysterical screaming begins. . . .
After Johnny has discovered that breathing is more important than screaming and been calm on my lap for 5 or so minutes, I let him down. Usually, he's fairly exhausted and seeks whatever comfort he can find in a parent's lap or sitting beside the parent.
The NEXT session, Johnny tests me right away and discovers that maybe I'm even quicker. IF I have to put my hand on his mouth, he's usually much quicker at regaining control.
Virtually invariably, by the 2nd or 3rd session, it is hard to get Johnny off my lap. He's learned that FINALLY someone is willing AND ABLE to provide some strong boundaries, stability, control to his chaotic world and he rightly interprets that as a strong kind/measure of Love. And he soaks it up.
I believe appropriate whacks can send the same sort of message. But I don't believe they should be given to kids past puberty. . . and certain other kids of certain personalities, temperaments. Time out rooms, chairs are useful.
BUT I MUCH PREFER PREVENTING AS MANY PROBLEMS as possible. I have found the following book(s) very helpful as have a number of parents I know.
RAISING A THINKING PRE-TEEN (ISBN: 0805059911) by Myrna B Shure PhD who also wrote HOW TO RAISE A THINKING CHILD.
Her URL is:
http://www.thinkingpreteen.com/tipsforparents.htm
I'm not thrilled with her use of Harry P but most of her stuff is excellent.
Another good site for Pre-K kids is Karin and Evelyn Petersen's at:
http://www.preksmarties.com/preschoolers/evelyn.htm
MOSTLY, IN MOST CASES WITH MOST KIDS AND QUALITY PROACTIVE, PREVENTIVE PARENTING, I don't think much whacking will be needed. But WHEN THERE'S CLEAR AND BLATANT REBELLION OR DEFIANCE or danger to self or others, I believe it may be warranted.
I also have a bias that a Father too busy to more or less daily give LOTS OF HEALTHY PHYSICAL AFFECTION, affirmation, approval, etc. is likely too busy to be a qualified candidate to whack any kid under his charge. I'm not sure he's qualified to be a parent at all but that's another long monologue. Mothers ought also not be whacking more than a microscopic amount of the positive affection they are routinely dishing out.
If they are "tooooo busy" to give lots of routine healthy affection, probably they are too busy. It doesn't have to be long. It has to be authentic, timely, meaningful, heart-felt. . . at least enough to register so with the kid. And it can spare you a ton of clean-up with the kids in other ways, after the messes are made in their lives and yours.
I also believe that parents who take time routinely to CONNECT with each child emotionally, intellectually, LISTENTING TO THEM etc. will have a ready hearing on values and behavior.
OF COURSE ENDLESS STUDIES HAVE SHOWN that children will always DO WHAT PARENTS DO vs what parents "merely" say.
Blessings to you and yours.
I will start by saying that when I was a child I had the tar wailed out of me by my mama on a semi-regular basis. These whippin's were more often the consequence of annoying her when she was in a bad mood than valid discipline for some behavioral infraction. That woman could wield a belt and there were times I would go to school with welts all over my body. Even by the standards of the day THAT could have been considered abuse.
All that said, I resolved that when I had children I would never strike them with a belt and never in anger. I also determined to be consistent and use the Bible as my guide. I was faithful to these resolutions though it was sometimes very difficult.
There are many scriptures that deal with the issue of "spanking." It is the source of the saying "spare the rod and spoil the child." Here are just a couple:
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him. Proverbs 13:24
"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:5-11
In some translations and some verses the words are much harsher. In any event, the Bible is quite clear in equating discipline with love.
One thing that I discovered as a parent was that the consistent and effective discipline of a child requires enormous self-discipline. It is so much easier to allow the bad behavior in many instances or to strike out when you are thoroughly fed up. Spanking shouldn't be the first line of defense either, but I'm sure you know that.
HERE IS MY SUGGESTED LIST OF GUIDELINES:
1. Never spank in anger.
2. Be consistent.
3. Plan ahead of time "spankable" offenses and make sure the child knows what they are. In our household, for example, any act of blatant disobedience was punishable by spanking as was outright rebellion/defiance. I also made sure that it was understood what these infractions meant.
4. Follow through. Never threaten to spank without following through. This undermines your authority and causes your child to lose respect for you. In his mind it makes you a liar; a breaker of promises.
5. Make sure the child understands why he was spanked. Discipline is the goal; spanking is a tool.
6. Temper a spanking with lots of hugs and affirmation.
To sum up, the spanking ritual in my home went something like this: An offense is committed which requires a spanking. A knowing "look" is exchanged. I ask my daughter what is going to happen. She tells me she is going to get a spanking. Let's say I am really angry. I send her to her room to wait for me to cool down. After I cool down I call her out of her room. I would start counting while I waited for HER to assume the position. Using some implement (wooden spoon, paddle, switch), never my hand, I would administer the number of swats to her butt equal to the count required. Afterwards, I would have her explain to me why she was spanked. If there was evidence that she didn't understand something at that point, I made sure it got cleared up. Then I would hug her, tell her how much I loved her and how much God loved her.
In general, I found this to be very effective and it puts a lot of the responsibility ON THE CHILD to make informed choices and to even weigh the consequences of his actions ahead of time. It also gives the child some control over the level of the spanking.
Finally, don't underestimate your child's ability to understand. When my daughter was just 2, she was acting up real bad. I had a lot of things going on and didn't want to over-react, but the longer I brushed it aside, the worse she got. I finally gave her a spanking. I felt badly that I'd had to. I asked her afterwards, "didn't you know when you were doing that that you would get a spanking?" She says, "yes." So I said, "then why did you do it?" She said, "because I needed a hug." Needless to say, I had to re-evaluate my priorities at that point.
Today my daughter is 23 and she tells me that the worst part of those spankings was the waiting for me to cool down. She said that she always knew that the longer it took me to cool down the madder I was and she says that the wait was torture. She never considered me to be unfair though and she certainly does not think that I was in any way abusive or that I disciplined her for any reason other than love for her and obedience to God.
"It's not nice to hit people", yet you as a parent "hit" as a form of punishment.
"It's not nice to hang people (kill people)", yet the government does so (used to) as a punishment.
There's a difference between striking out in anger and frustration (hitting); and coldly calculated administration of justice (spanking).
Never spank when you're mad! Don't use your hand, get a paddle.
ROTFL! Careful or your words could be mistaken for a call to the PC police!
Or joking.
However, these are the same people who tell me my child will be irreparably harmed because my wife works. They also use the Bible as reason to spank their child. I'm a church going Catholic and don't care one way or another what the Bible says about spanking. I use my own discretion on how, and in what forms to discipline my child. That's why God gave me a brain.
Sorry, but when people start quoting the Bible concerning this issue I tune out.
The Bible says that when you tune out people quoting the Bible...ahh fughet about it.
;)
"Jared? What have you done?", was the light, inquisitive, voice of my daughter.
"I will stand in the corner now", Jared in a calm but concerned voice. He then went to a corner, facing out to the room and stood.
My daughter then went with the phone into her son's bedroom. We heard laughter. Jared had used colored pencils and crayons to "decorate" his wall. My daughter described what was before her and remarked that she wished she could have been a fly on the wall to see when her son realized that what he had done was not correct and he was in trouble. She composed herself and returned to the room where Jared was still standing.
Phone still in hand, she picked up her child and hugged him and gave him a big kiss. "I love you! Yes Jared, you are right, you do need to stand in the corner. What you did was bad. I am happy that you know it is bad, we will fix it later."
She talked with us for a few more minutes, Jared still in the corner. We said our goodbyes and she attended to my grandson.
Words cannot explain how comforting this spontaneous display of discipline being played before us made my wife an myself feel. We are so glad that a cycle of loving kindness has prevailed on our next generation.
"What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?" (1 Cor. 4:21) Paul choose meekness and offered them a more excellent way.(1 Cor. 12:31) I know what I have done with my kids is not easy. But it is well worth the effort.
Tabasco works well too; again, just a drop on the finger is all it takes. I found this to be effective for foul language and other sins of the tongue, such as back-sassing. This is especially a problem with girls.
See #131 — I swear before God I didn't make this up. But it's a classic. You don't see candor like this often; here's someone who gets what it is to be RC and boldly says so.
I believe you are mentally ill. See a doctor.
Please explain the comment that I "get what it is to be Roman Catholic and boldly say so"?
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