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Arguing the Case for Southern Secession
Lew Rockwell ^ | 12/20/01 | Reviewed by Joseph R. Stromberg

Posted on 12/20/2001 4:01:19 AM PST by shuckmaster

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To: drjimmy
"Except for those folks who didn't have any personal freedoms because they were owned by the people to whom you are referring?"

The north wasn't as economically dependent on slavery as the South but was just as supportive of it. In fact Massachusetts was the last state to do away with slavery.

If slavery has been the real issue all the northern states would have been slave free well before the end of the War of Northern Aggression BUT THEY WEREN'T.

It was and emotional bit of propaganda to hide Lincoln Monarchical aims.

21 posted on 12/20/2001 7:06:26 AM PST by tberry
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To: shuckmaster
bump
22 posted on 12/20/2001 7:13:10 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: babyface00
Why is the "slavery card" always pulled out instead of some cold hard facts?
Because my friend, one mustn't let the "cold hard facts" stand in the way of a perfectly good cultural bias.

Give it some time though. It may not be long before the 'cut and paste cookie monsters' drop in and enlighten us on the "cold hard facts".

23 posted on 12/20/2001 7:31:16 AM PST by Jasper
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To: shuckmaster
Great post Shuck. Gonna add this one to my holiday reading list.
If its okay with you, I'd like to affix some of your "link graphics" to my e-mails. You have a great site and I'd love to get the word out.
24 posted on 12/20/2001 7:43:13 AM PST by Jasper
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To: shuckmaster
Who has the time to continuously debunk these theories? Every one of the Defenders of Slaveocracy has been shot down in flames time after time but it makes no difference to those who simply refuse to look at the truth and use logic.

There is no validity to any of the D.S.'s arguments not one and that is easily proven. But next thread the D.S.'s are back pretending that their arguments have never been refuted throwing endless misleading, deceptive or outright lying statements from discredited or rightfully obscure hacks at the audience.

Pathetic waste of time defending treason and anti-Americanism. The D.S.'s hatred of Lincoln is particularly hilarious. His superior intellect over any of the Slaveocrats' "leaders" drives them to mad attempts to pretend he was actually worse than those beating and whipping the slaves. But the slaves knew the truth as their love for President Lincoln clearly showed.

It is particularly disgusting to watch the D.S.'s attack a true martyr. A man who gave his life (and happiness) for his country now becomes the subject of venomous vituperation from the hateful ignorant. Even one as confused as Jefferson Davis understood that the death of Lincoln was a tremendous blow to the defeated South. His latter day worshippers are too stupid to understand that.

25 posted on 12/20/2001 8:02:23 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit
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To: babyface00
Why is the "slavery card" always pulled out instead of some cold hard facts?

Perhaps it is because the 'cold hard facts' all indicate that the defense of the institution of slavery was the primary reason for secession? If one reads the Declaration of the Causes of Secession for the various states it becomes clear. Mississippi, for example, said,

"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. "

Georgia said,

"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. "

Texas said,

"Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. "

Alexander Stephens, vice president of the confederacy, said,

"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other -- though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."

The southern leadership - in it's own words - makes it clear what the most important factor in their decision to enter into rebellion was and that was the institution of slavery.

26 posted on 12/20/2001 8:08:07 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: tberry
In fact Massachusetts was the last state to do away with slavery.

That would have been New York in 1827. From a strictly legal standpoint it actually would have been Kentucky and Deleware and those parts of the southern states controlled by the North when the Emancipation Proclamation became effective. Slavery was theoretically legal there until December 1865.

27 posted on 12/20/2001 9:19:23 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: tberry
After Fort Sumter, the (Northern) President unconstitutionally established a blockade of Southern ports on his own motion.

Wrong. The question of the legality of the blockade was decided by the Supreme Court in 1863 in what are commonly called the "Prize Cases". The Supreme Court decided that the blockade was a legal extension of the President's powers to supress rebellion.

That is my major complaint with Adams' book. It if very poorly researched and full of inaccuracies such as these. The Civil War is one of the most thoroughly documented wars of the 19th century. There are warehouses full of government documents before, during, and after the war for both North and south. Every major figure in the war except Lincoln wrote memoirs. Every political leader of both the North and the south left masses of written documentation on their thoughts and positions both before the war and after. And yet Adams uses none of this. He quotes endlessly from newspaper editorials and nothing from the figures who actually made the history. All in all it is a very poorly researched work and little more than page after page of his own opinions.

BTW, I have a used copy of the book I am willing to sell cheap.

28 posted on 12/20/2001 9:27:33 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Jasper
Please do. Thanks for your support!
29 posted on 12/20/2001 9:43:34 AM PST by shuckmaster
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To: shuckmaster
OK!

may i also recommend, LINCOLN & the SECRET SIX? that's another EYE-OPENER of a book.

for dixie,sw

30 posted on 12/20/2001 9:49:26 AM PST by stand watie
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To: Non-Sequitur
"1827"

?

You are telling us that there were no slaves in the North for approximately 20+ years before the War of Northern Aggression?

31 posted on 12/20/2001 9:55:15 AM PST by tberry
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Sorry yank but, you can't refute anything with disprovable lies. The only thing acomplished by all the revisionist cut & paste bs that always pops up from the same miserable handful is to bump the the thread back up to the top so, more people will find the truth! Please reply!
32 posted on 12/20/2001 9:56:52 AM PST by shuckmaster
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To: shuckmaster
So do they STILL want to go?
33 posted on 12/20/2001 9:59:43 AM PST by StoneColdGOP
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: tberry
Well that would depend on how you defined the North. Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, and Missouri all were northern states and all had slaved during much or all of the war. Taking into account the other northern states then every one of them had passed laws outlawing slavery. Most had clauses outlawing new slavery and and immediately freeing slaves in a certain age group while freeing the rest over time over time but by 1840 of the 2,482,000 slaves in the United States fewer than 1200 lived in the Northern states other than Missouri, Delaware, Maryland and Kentucky. By 1850 that number had dropped to less than 250 - all in New Jersey.

So were there slaves in the North during the Civil War? Yes. But even taking into consideration the 4 border south states that remained loyal to the Union 9 out of every 10 slaves still lived in the confederate states.

35 posted on 12/20/2001 10:13:30 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: shuckmaster
Sorry yank but, you can't refute anything with disprovable lies.

If you can't disprove them then how can you claim that they are lies?

36 posted on 12/20/2001 10:15:28 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
What is the definition of salvery? Does it exist now in the united States of America?
37 posted on 12/20/2001 10:18:10 AM PST by Baseballguy
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To: Baseballguy
Merriam-Webster defines slavery as a noun with one definition being "submission to a dominating influence" and a second definition being "the state of a person who is a chattel of another." So yes or no, take your pick.
38 posted on 12/20/2001 10:31:08 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"But the slaves knew the truth as their love for President Lincoln clearly showed.

That's interesting - kind of like they love Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

TIME OUT - no flames, please. I don't think Lincoln was evil incarnate, but he was not faultless, either. Slavery was (and is) evil.

I've made observations that I'd love to write a book about, but I know I'll never get around to it. But, let me ask you, and everyone else something - Doesn't it seem to you that we have substituted very poor education today for illegal education of slaves back then? - Is it too much of a stretch to see that those poorly educated people (too often "coincidentally" black) are now paid very little to work at the "McDonald's Plantation", or at the local "Hometown Factory Plantation"?

This is not a Southern problem alone. And there will always be bigots on BOTH sides of the fence. Your insistence that those of us who long for states's rights are all bigots is comparable to me calling you a Communist because you like a strong federal government.

I'll grant that slavery was a big part. But it was NOT the only issue.

39 posted on 12/20/2001 10:37:58 AM PST by HeadOn
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To: Non-Sequitur
Who is a land owner? I wonder how much land is owned by the people of the united States of America and how much is owned by Corporations(Banks)? If you are not a land owner are you a share croper?
40 posted on 12/20/2001 10:43:55 AM PST by Baseballguy
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