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Granges File Suit to Delist Coho Salmon
California State Grange | Dec.13, 2001

Posted on 12/13/2001 9:54:57 AM PST by farmfriend

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To: farmfriend
YES!!!

Great news!

21 posted on 12/13/2001 12:05:35 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: Black Agnes
www.pacificlegal.org
22 posted on 12/13/2001 12:05:47 PM PST by laureldrive
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To: farmfriend
pacificlegal.org
23 posted on 12/13/2001 12:06:49 PM PST by laureldrive
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To: farmfriend
Thanks for the ping, farmfriend! This is such good news!
I hope this spreads all over the country!
24 posted on 12/13/2001 12:09:42 PM PST by dixiechick2000
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To: farmfriend
Thanks for the ping.

Go here for :

Pacific Legal Foundation

25 posted on 12/13/2001 12:28:44 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: farmfriend
this has all the earmarks (or clipped fins?) of good news.
thanks for ping, farmfriend.
26 posted on 12/13/2001 12:48:57 PM PST by glock rocks
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To: farmfriend; Jeff Head
Hooray for them! It is about time someone realized that the Coho salmon were only a threat to people. People are not a threat to the Coho salmon.
27 posted on 12/13/2001 1:14:08 PM PST by broomhilda
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To: farmfriend
It is time to just say NO!
Then I saw what was wrong with the world, I saw what destroyed men and nations, and where the battle for life had to be fought.

I saw that the enemy was an inverted morality – and that my sanction was its only power. I saw that evil was impotent – that evil was the irrational, the blind, the anti-real – and that the only weapon of its triumph was the willingness of the good to serve it.

Just as the parasites around me were proclaiming their helpless dependence on my mind and were expecting me voluntarily to accept a slavery they had no power to enforce, just as they were counting on my self-immolation to provide them with the means of their plan – so throughout the world and throughout men’s history, in every version and form, from the extortions of loafing relatives to the atrocities of collectives countries, it is the good, the able, the men of reason, who act as their own destroyers, who transfuse to evil the blood of their virtue and let evil transmit to them the poison of destruction, thus gaining for evil the power of survival, and for their own values – the impotence of death.

I saw that there comes a point, in the defeat of any man of virtue, when his own consent is needed for evil to win – and that no manner of injury done to him by others can succeed if he chooses to withhold his consent. I saw that I could put an end to your outrages by pronouncing a single word in my mind. I pronounced it. The word was "No".

--Ayn Rand, Galt’s Speech, Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[all one paragraph in the original]

28 posted on 12/13/2001 1:43:08 PM PST by snopercod
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To: gundog
I use Eudora to compose most messages in and I cut and paste, I'd forgotten about the first paragraph...
I'm having laser surgery on my left eye tomorrow to correct the leakage behind the retina...
My eyes dilated right now and I'm not seeing very well... {:~)
29 posted on 12/13/2001 3:22:06 PM PST by blackie
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To: farmfriend
The only words I understood in this title: "file", "suit", "to", "salmon". I can't tell if these, together with the remaining words in the title, form an actual sentence or not.

Guess I'll have to read the article ;)

30 posted on 12/13/2001 3:24:52 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: farmfriend
Outstanding. Thanks for the ping.

“When you see that trading is done,
not by consent, but by compulsion –
When you see that in order to produce,
you need permission from men who produce nothing –
When you see that money is flowing
to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors –
When you see that men get richer
by graft and pull than by hard work, and your laws
don't protect you against them, but protest them against you –
When you see corruption being rewarded
and honesty becoming self-sacrifice –
You may know your society is doomed.”

Atlas Shrugged
          Ayn Rand


31 posted on 12/13/2001 3:38:46 PM PST by brityank
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To: farmfriend
Thank you so much for the ping my friend.
32 posted on 12/13/2001 3:54:33 PM PST by Snow Bunny
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To: lelio
I club every one of them that I manage to catch, and if it's been a while since I caught one, I might club it with a little extra zeal.
33 posted on 12/13/2001 4:00:02 PM PST by alaskanfan
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To: farmfriend
DR. RICHARD GIERAK

I know you're out there/here. Thanks.
34 posted on 12/13/2001 4:01:35 PM PST by sasquatch
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Salvation
We are trying to go after the trout listing that started this whole mess by seperating "wild" from hatchery. We will add about 3 states and the Columbia river water shed to the suit.
36 posted on 12/13/2001 8:41:48 PM PST by farmfriend
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To: Dr. Frank
All your sentences are belong to us!
37 posted on 12/13/2001 8:43:55 PM PST by farmfriend
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To: farmfriend
You might be interested in the info here: http://www.snowcrest.net/siskfarm/midklamnat.html

It is not well known that the Iron Gate hatchery fish on the Klamath were not even considered part of the SONCC coho ESU that was listed. We allege the "natural spawners" in the mid-Klamath are all progeny of this hatchery stock, yet they are listed. To make it even weirder, the Trinity River stock WAS included in the ESU and it was also the source of Iron Gate broodstock. The Trinity got its stock from the Columbia. The natural spawners in the Trinity are considered offspring of the Trinity hatchery fish. Although both are in the same ESU, only the "natural spawners" are listed.

I personally think Leo is not being realistic to think that scientific scrutiny would fix this. The scientific "experts" are where this all came from. They are so theoretical and removed from reality, that they will only verify that this garbage is good science. (They already did that with the Upper Basin biological opinion

These academic biologists have done so much to destroy all credibility in holding science as a discipline that will provide a verifiable body of facts upon which to base decisions. They should hang their heads in shame.

38 posted on 12/14/2001 12:14:17 AM PST by marsh2
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To: marsh2
I can't argue with anything you've said. You have to remember that Grange policy is set at the local level and we have some pretty "green" locals. There is also this general belief that science is honest and unbiased. You and I know different of course. I think if this suit is left to Leo and his it is doomed but I have faith in PLF and Leroy at National.
39 posted on 12/14/2001 6:26:52 AM PST by farmfriend
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To: blackie
Good luck with the surgery.:)
40 posted on 12/14/2001 7:04:13 AM PST by gundog
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