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GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE IS A BLACK HOLE OF STUPIDITY
Gun Laws of America | 12.08.2001 | Alan Korwin

Posted on 12/09/2001 7:08:54 PM PST by CHICAGOFARMER

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1 posted on 12/09/2001 7:08:54 PM PST by CHICAGOFARMER (lawjj2@allways.net)
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Seems like a great post, but every link that I tried is broken!
2 posted on 12/09/2001 7:16:47 PM PST by Fixit
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To: CHICAGOFARMER; *bang_list

Buy a Gun Today before its too late!
3 posted on 12/09/2001 7:22:46 PM PST by Khepera
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
As usual, it's all about making the federal government bigger. At this point, many of the idiots who support this bill probably aren't after information about gun owners as much as they just want their state or district to get part of the contract for the new bureaucrats who will manage this information. Given what McCain usually does, I'm surprised that he hasn't yet asked for ground troops.

WFTR
Bill

4 posted on 12/09/2001 7:27:11 PM PST by WFTR
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Thanks for the heads up.

Merry Christmas, and God Bless!

5 posted on 12/09/2001 7:41:32 PM PST by MileHi
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
The Congress won't shy away from passing unconstitutional law, look at question # 5 on the fed firearm sale form"
"are you a fugitive from justice"
a blatant violation of the 5th amendment, so what else is new?
6 posted on 12/09/2001 7:50:50 PM PST by TJFLSTRAT
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Just curious...waddya think? If handguns were illegal and if possession were made a felony...would we see a long term reduction in urban shootings?

I live in the Chicago suburbs and find it hard to believe that handguns are good for anything other than murder. I've heard the argument that if handguns were illegal, only criminals would possess them. I say stiffen the penalty and eliminate the handgun altogether. When was the last time that you hear of the Crips or Gaylords doing a drive-by with a rifle?

Flame away!

7 posted on 12/09/2001 8:06:40 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: spanky_mcfarland
Just curious...waddya think? If handguns were illegal and if possession were made a felony...would we see a long term reduction in urban shootings?

I can't believe you actually THINK it much less post it. do you REALLY think criminals will put down or turn in their guns? The answer to your question is as it as always been shown to be - crime will DRASTICALLY go UP. Once the law-abiding are stripped of their ability to protect themselves - the criminals will come out like cockroaches after the lights go out - robbery, rape, murder, all of it will skyrocket - all the while Hitlery & company will tell us how much "safer" we are, of course.
8 posted on 12/09/2001 8:13:31 PM PST by GussiedUp
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To: spanky_mcfarland
Criminals take the path of least resistance around whatever restrictions are in place. There are ample penalties for possession of a firearm by a felon or its use in the commission of a crime.

I'm too burned out to substantiate this; check out GunCite and FR mail me if you have any more questions.
9 posted on 12/09/2001 8:55:05 PM PST by Djarum
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To: GussiedUp
Handguns are for concealment and murder...not self defense. Think large scale here (if you can) if handguns were completely removed from circulation, armed robbery, drive by shooting, and home invasion would be a whole lot more difficult to pull off.

Also, any gun owner worth his/her salt would much rather defend the homestead with a 12 gauge than some pimp-ass handgun.

Dare a retort?

10 posted on 12/09/2001 9:01:32 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: spanky_mcfarland; *bang_list
Murder is already a felony ... what makes you think that someone willing to commit murder won't do it with an illegal handgun?

By taking away the legal ability to use handguns, you merely ensure that the small, weak, and infirm, will be defenseless against stronger or multiple attackers. If that's your utopia - why don't you go to one of the fine places where guns are illegal?

When you have second thoughts, you might try going to Vermont, where you don't even need a permit to carry concealed handguns. Question: Where's the gun crime higher? In your neighborhood where it's already illegal to carry handguns, or in VT where anyone may?

11 posted on 12/09/2001 9:04:27 PM PST by coloradan
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To: spanky_mcfarland
Handguns are for concealment and murder...not self defense. ... Dare a retort?

If handguns are for murder, why do the police carry them? Is this so they can just go kill people? If that's true, then why do they also carry shotguns and/or rifles in their car?

12 posted on 12/09/2001 9:06:10 PM PST by coloradan
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To: Djarum
I own eight firearms and none of them are handguns. Handguns are made for concealment and murder. I'd like to see handgun possession made a felony and every (non-police and non-military) handgun removed from circulation.

As stated in my earlier post...no self respecting gun owner would rather defend his/her home using a pimp-ass handgun rather than a big 'ol 12gauge.

13 posted on 12/09/2001 9:10:27 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: coloradan
"If handguns are for murder, why do the police carry them? Is this so they can just go kill people? If that's true, then why do they also carry shotguns and/or rifles in their car?"

It's an example of unnecessary escalation...police carry them in order to level the playing field. If everyone on the street is allowed to conceal carry, how would an orderly society survive with the authorities subscribing to a different set of rules.

Again, my point is that the handgun exists solely for the purpose of concealment and murder. The criminalization and TOTAL elimination of this scourge will promote a more orderly society without limiting an individuals right to protect their home with a weapon suitable for home defense (such as a shotgun).

14 posted on 12/09/2001 9:26:31 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: spanky_mcfarland
Britain has the restrictions you suggest, and more of a problem with home invasion than the U.S(1).

Handgun possession most often is a felony for those carrying without permission, or even with permission but intent to use it unlawfully. Handguns are made for sport and lethal defense, not murder.
15 posted on 12/09/2001 9:26:35 PM PST by Djarum
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To: spanky_mcfarland
Handguns are made for concealment and murder.

This is why single women carry them when they walk in questionable neighborhoods? Just to kill people?

I'd like to see handgun possession made a felony and every (non-police and non-military) handgun removed from circulation.

So, you're for confiscation. Well, then. I guess you're one of those ones the "gun nuts" have been telling us about: you're one of those who really does want to take our guns away.

As stated in my earlier post...no self respecting gun owner would rather defend his/her home using a pimp-ass handgun rather than a big 'ol 12gauge.

Since when is the government supposed to be in the business of legislating away pimp-ass things?

Imagine that you lived in a place where printers were illegal. Felonies, in fact. Also imagine that the government had printing shops that produced books on all sorts of topics - essentially about anything that you could possibly want to know about. But also suppose that there were a few subjects that you couldn't learn about from government books - say, how to launder money, or make drugs or bombs, or anthrax. It would seem quite possible that the few people willing to break the law by having illegal printers would not waste their time printing books on how to water roses or truss chicken. No, it's much more likely that they'll print things you can't find elsewhere - all these horrible, illegal things that the government doesn't want you to know about.

Would you imagine that the people who live in this land would support private ownership of printers? After all, not only are they illegal in themselves - they're only used to commit crimes by printing illegal materials, as well.

You have identified yourself as a resident near Chicago. Please consider the possibility that the only uses you have ever known or heard of, for handguns, are criminal uses, employed by criminals, and that this is why you think they should be banned. If you go to some of the other 99% of the country that isn't Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York City or Baltimore, you would find that 99% of handguns are used self-defense for non-criminal people, and also in hunting, target shooting, collections, and so forth. Would someone in the hypothetical land above reconsider their ban on printers when they see that others, who live elsewhere, also use them for non-criminal purposes?

The gun bans in Chicago didn't work to control crime there - please do not inflict these same failed prohibitions on the rest of the country.

16 posted on 12/09/2001 9:33:44 PM PST by coloradan
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To: spanky_mcfarland
The scourge is of murderers, not the implements of murder. A shotgun or rifle can be concealed after a few minutes under a hacksaw.
17 posted on 12/09/2001 9:34:32 PM PST by Djarum
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To: spanky_mcfarland
It's an example of unnecessary escalation...police carry them in order to level the playing field. If everyone on the street is allowed to conceal carry, how would an orderly society survive with the authorities subscribing to a different set of rules.

Vermont refutes this claim: you don't even need a permit to carry a handgun there - if you are legal to buy a firearm, you may also buy a holster, ammo, and extra mags, fit them, load the gun, tuck it under your sweater and walk past the on-duty policeman on your way out. And he won't stop you because it's legal. Please look into the crime rates there, and also the tendency of Vermonters to get in shootouts with police, before continuing with your claim above.

The criminalization and TOTAL elimination of this scourge will promote a more orderly society without limiting an individuals right to protect their home with a weapon suitable for home defense (such as a shotgun).

1. Are you familiar with the alcohol prohibition? How well did it work? Why was it discontinued? 2. How are people supposed to defend themselves when they are not at home? Are they supposed to make do with a shotgun there too? Or are they supposed to be legally disarmed and defenseless, like the passengers, in the plane that slammed into the World Trade Center, were?

18 posted on 12/09/2001 9:40:48 PM PST by coloradan
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To: Djarum
"Handguns are made for sport...

If you lived in a major metro (as do I) you'd likely see daily headlines showing the type of "sport" that really goes on.

19 posted on 12/09/2001 9:41:31 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: spanky_mcfarland
I do live in a metro area where handguns are often used in illegal acts by individuals with no respect for life. In prison these same people will tear tin cans into cutting instruments to slash another's throat, yet soda is not murder.
20 posted on 12/09/2001 9:46:24 PM PST by Djarum
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