Abraham Lincoln on Habeas Corpus

Abraham Lincoln | December 12. 2001 | Abraham Lincoln

[WIMom]

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[sheltonmac]

Okay, I'm convinced. A monarchy is the best form of government.

[sheltonmac]

BUMP

[Alberta's Child]

Again, a jury too frequently has at least one member more ready to hang the panel than to hang the traitor.

What does this have to do with Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus? I could use the same compelling argument to support a motion to eliminate jury trials altogether.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Again, a jury too frequently has at least one member more ready to hang the panel than to hang the traitor.

What does this have to do with Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus? I could use the same compelling argument to support a motion to eliminate jury trials altogether.

That is a good point. I would think it hinges upon not so much habeas corpus in 1863 as it does military tribunals in 2001.

Walt

[Tauzero]

Daaaaam!!!

"Again, a jury too frequently has at least one member more ready to hang the panel than to hang the traitor."

Um, that's kinda why we have juries.

Lincoln sounds like a paranoid control freak.

[Triple]

Stop the presses, the US cannot afford dissenting opinion in time of war/rebellion.

Or can it?

I guess Lincoln thought the Union war effort could not stand up to the free market of ideas.

[sheltonmac]

Article I, Section 9 says, in part, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." At the outset of hostilities, Lincoln unconstitutionally suspended the Writ, something that only Congress can do. Only later did Congress go along with him. Also, there was no rebellion. "Rebellion" implies that there was an active attempt by the South to overthrow the government. Had the South been allowed to peacefully secede, Lincoln would have retained the presidency, Congress would have still been able to meet, elections would have continued, and the U.S. Constitution would have remained intact. I still don't see the "rebellion" side of it or why the Writ had to be suspended for the public safety.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I guess Lincoln thought the Union war effort could not stand up to the free market of ideas.

Lincoln insisted that free eections be held, even when he thought it likely he would lose.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Article I, Section 9 says, in part, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." At the outset of hostilities, Lincoln unconstitutionally suspended the Writ, something that only Congress can do.

I knew this wouldn't take long.

The Constitution only speaks to what Congress may do; it says nothing about that the President may do.

As I know that -you- know full well, the current Chief Justice has opined that the matter as regards the president is unresolved until this very day.

Walt

[billbears]

not so much habeas corpus in 1863

Get it right Walt. lincoln suspended habeas corpus in '61, it just wasn't voted on in Congress until '63.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Also, there was no rebellion. "Rebellion" implies that there was an active attempt by the South to overthrow the government.

This type of nonsense is straight from "1984".

Walt

[nimc]

Lincoln always makes a lot of sense to me. I could not agree more.

The question today is whether the government will stop the emetics when the sickness is gone.

This is a new age. One that seems to have been surrounding us for a long time, it's just now that we can see it. Never will we go back to the norms of a year ago just as we will never be rid of terrorism. We can only exist with heightened intelligence, proactive investigation and enforcement. Answer this: When will we stop putting tamper proof seals on are packaging?

[WhiskeyPapa]

not so much habeas corpus in 1863

Get it right Walt. lincoln suspended habeas corpus in '61, it just wasn't voted on in Congress until '63.

And yet it was still complained of in 1863.

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

So what reason did Jefferson Davis have when he pushed the suspension of habeas corpus through the confederate congress in 1862?

[Defiant]

What he's saying is that in time of war, the nicety of having a unanimous 12 person jury for conviction is dangerous to the common defense. Especially true in a civil war, where you are likely to have a few rebel sympathizers on any jury.

[billbears]

Jefferson Davis have when he pushed the suspension of habeas corpus through the confederate congress in 1862?

That right there says it all. Davis followed Constitutional procedure, unlike his northern counterpart

[Triple]

So, I take it you concur with my comments, that he stopped the dissenting presses because he thought a free press would hurt the Union war effort, as he states in his letter.

Sounds to me like Lincoln had little confidence in the foundation for his actions.

As for JD, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Triple]

Good catch, maybe JD was not wrong in this matter.