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To: Huck
What is the basis of a "natural" right to property, and if it is natural, pre-existing law, then explain for me how it applies only to some human beings? I think you hang quite a lot on that phrase "as we know them." Are natural rights so completely open to interpretation that whole ways of life are beyond their scope?

I doubt that we'll resolve this here. The right to property doesn't exist in a vacuum. Property rights are a concept. When a society develops and applies that concept, it prospers. When a society lacks that concept (e.g., the North American indians), it is at a serious disadvantage if it finds itself in competition with a society which is advanced enough to have property rights.

In principle, the concept of property rights could have applied to the indians too, but they preferred to live in their tribal societies.

21 posted on 12/03/2001 6:07:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Property rights are a concept. When a society develops and applies that concept, it prospers. When a society lacks that concept (e.g., the North American indians), it is at a serious disadvantage if it finds itself in competition with a society which is advanced enough to have property rights.

I am not advocating the American indian system. It seems to me, though, that your statement is the same as mine. You say the indian way put them at "serious disadvantage." I agree. But that disadvantage was the barrel of a gun.

In principle, the concept of property rights could have applied to the indians too, but they preferred to live in their tribal societies.

See, maybe I am naive, or mistaken, or both, but I thought that the right to property was one of Locke's natural rights. I thought it was self-evident. I am unable to determine how it is that such a right can be denied to a whole race, simply because there system is different. I understand it practically. They took the land from the indians, who were not sophisticated enough, legally or militarily, to hold on to it. Heck, the indians out in California in the early 19th century could hardly feed themselves. I understand practically how it happened. I am just thinking out loud about the philospohical rationale. Something that comes to mind is a bit I read by Jaffa, where he talks about how a certain "adult consciousness" is required to recognize natural rights. I don't know if that is the best term, but perhaps it points towards the answer to my musings.

25 posted on 12/03/2001 6:58:21 AM PST by Huck
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