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ABRAHAM - Father of Three Faiths
National Geographic ^ | December 2001 | Tad Szluc

Posted on 12/01/2001 8:04:47 PM PST by Phil V.

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To: 2sheep
Post #47 --- too funny! The names change so damn often! This is a masterpiece, I hope you'll be "on call" for future postings of same!
61 posted on 12/02/2001 10:42:40 PM PST by onyx
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To: KQQL
Yes, of two faiths. According to this study, the genetic results suggest that the Arab/Muslim claims of having descended from Abraham through Ishmael are probably bogus, an example of Muhammed having tried to appropriate another religion's mojo for his designer religion (He later cut out certain phenotypes he had originally put in to attract Jews to it after they told him where to stick it. He went away mad, wrote anti-Judaism in, and he and his followers have been pissed at having been dissed ever since.)

Genetic evidence again links Jews to their ancient tribe
By Judy Siegel
November 20, 2001
(November 20) - Genetic evidence continues to provide additional proof to the claims that the Jewish people are descended from a common ancient Israelite father: Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.

These conclusions are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein Kerem.

Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr. Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India.

The researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups - Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and Moslem Kurds.

The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12 populations. The typing of the Jewish groups was performed at the National Genome Center at HU's Silberman Institute of Life Sciences.

The Fertile Crescent of the Middle East was one of the few centers in which the transition from hunting-gathering to permanent settlement and agriculture took place. Genetic studies suggest that migrating Neolithic farmers dispersed their technological innovations and domesticated animals from the Middle East towards Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

Studies of Y chromosomes have become powerful tools for the investigation of the genetic history of males, since these chromosomes are transmitted from fathers to sons.

Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs. These findings are consistent with known cultural links that existed among populations in the Fertile Crescent in early history, and indicate that the Jews are direct descendants of the early Middle Eastern core populations, which later divided into distinct ethnic groups speaking different languages.

Previous investigations by the HU researchers suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East. The current study refines and delineates that connection.

It is believed that the majority of today's Jews - not including converts and non-Jews with whom Jews intermarried - descended from the ancient Israelis that lived in the historic Land of Israel until the destruction of the Second Temple and their dispersal into the Diaspora.

The researchers say that a genetic analysis of the chromosomes of Jews from various countries show that there was practically no genetic intermixing between them and the host populations among which they were scattered during their dispersion - whether in Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal or North Africa.

A particularly intriguing case illustrating this is that of the Kurdish Jews, said to be the descendants of the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled in 723 BCE. to the area known today as Kurdistan, located in Northern Iraq, Iran and Eastern Turkey. They continued to live there as a separate entity until their immigration to Israel in the 1950s. The Kurdish Jews of today show a much greater affinity to their fellow Jews elsewhere than to the Kurdish Moslems.


And so Yasser, as Abraham would no doubt say to you (quoting Phil Collins), "You're no son, you're no son, you're no son of mine."
62 posted on 12/02/2001 10:53:40 PM PST by aruanan
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To: aruanan
bump
63 posted on 12/02/2001 11:02:46 PM PST by KQQL
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To: onyx; Thinkin' Gal
>Post #47 --- too funny! The names change so damn often! This is a masterpiece, I hope you'll be "on call" for future postings of same!

Actually, Thinkin' Gal did the original set-up with a different picture of Kudzu Fat and someone else did the animated gif.  I just put them together in the hope that the one person who is doing all of these Arab Propaganda posts, gets banned and gets back on with another name and continues the Arab Prop still more, might be called off or cut off, whoever he/she/it (i.e., he or the Musli Shi'ite) might be.

64 posted on 12/02/2001 11:54:28 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: Phil V.; 2sheep
Well, Phil V., I see that you're still straining at gnats (relatively speaking) while polishing off virtually every camel in the Middle East. You must have one hell of a colon to contain all those camels you've swallowed. It's obvious from the tremendous amount of you-know-what that issues from you in a heavy stream. Which "religion of peace" subdued by the sword the region from India to the Atlantic and from North Africa to Southern Europe? Judaism or Islam?
65 posted on 12/03/2001 4:07:53 AM PST by aruanan
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To: hogwaller
Avraham was probably not the first person to believe in One God: Noah was blameless and is the father of all people now living. Adam's son Seth called on YHWH by name long before Noah.

Avraham called God by his name, YHWH.
Christians originally believed in a triune God, who JC claimed to be.
Islam calls their god Allah.

Therfore, these are 3 different religions.

Avraham's religion was further revealed through Moses and the other prophets.

66 posted on 12/03/2001 7:55:09 AM PST by jonatron
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Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: Phil V.
This is a bunch of PC BS!!
This has been the trend in National Geographic, this and catering to the environmentalist wacko movement.
We have maintained a membership since 1978 but let it lapse this year by not renewing.
This issue with the Abraham story came with a threat on the outside wrapper that this is our last issue if we don't renew. Please Please! Spare us we have had it with your magazine.
68 posted on 12/03/2001 11:13:35 AM PST by MomwithHope
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To: Lent; aruanan
Lent, let's both do something unusual. Let's both e-mail Britannica.com and point out what may VERY WELL BE a grievous inflammatory and substantial error in the article that I posted. It is important to note that I DID NOT scan from some old and outdated volume. I posted from the 2001 on-line Britannica.com article. If, as your source suggests, this article is substantially inaccurate then at the very least, Britannica needs to consider new research and possibly eliminate this "distortion".
- from 2001 britannica.com -

. . . On July 22, 1946, the Irgun blew up a wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 soldiers and civilians (British, Arab, and Jewish). On April 9, 1947, a group of Irgun commandos raided the Arab village of Dayr Yasin (modern Kefar Sha’ul), killing all 254 of its inhabitants.

- from - http://www.zoa.org/pubs/DeirYassin.htm -

. . . Finally, in 1987, the Bir Zeit University study--Arab researchers confirming that one of the central claims of the accusers, the death toll of 254, was a wild and reckless exaggeration. Taken together, these developments and revelations have exposed, once and for all, the lie of the Deir Yassin "massacre." It has taken fifty years, but the truth has finally caught up.

aruanan, all my camels speak highly of you - in fact they miss you very much! They are pining away and loosing weight. I swear, every morning I am awakened by their plaintive cry, "ARR - UUU - ANN - ANNNN"!!!

Their eyes have lost their "twinkle" since I "bought" them from you for twelve goats.

I'll return them in the morning. You can keep the goats.

69 posted on 12/03/2001 4:17:25 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: hogwaller; jonatron; Lent; Lurking Libertarian
Abraham - Father of one faith.

Luke 1:3-4 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

2 Chronicles 20:7; Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23

70 posted on 12/03/2001 4:31:09 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: Phil V.
. . . On July 22, 1946, the Irgun blew up a wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 soldiers and civilians (British, Arab, and Jewish). On April 9, 1947, a group of Irgun commandos raided the Arab village of Dayr Yasin (modern Kefar Sha’ul), killing all 254 of its inhabitants.

You read a Reader's Digest version and then you go off and pine away like you've got the truth. A paragraph gives you knowledge and understanding. Do you know what function Deir Yassin was playing in the war? Are you aware that Arab irregulars had installed themselves in Deir Yassin and used it as a point of attack against Jewish convoys and served as a strategic choke-off point for supplies to the Jews in Jerusalem? Are you aware that, because of towns like Deir Yassin the Arabs had succeeded in destroying most of the Jewish truck fleet even before Israel became a nation-state? Are you aware that, as is the usual methodology of the Arab Islamics, they installed themselves in this town to use its inhabitants as a shield? Are you aware that the Jews entered into Deir Yassin and announced that they would be undertaking an operation in that town and that the residents should leave? Are you aware that a number of Arab residents stayed and therefore the Arab irregulars, not surrendering as was their opportunity, engaged the Jews in a firefight? Civilian casualties yes. Exaggerated yes. Arab irregular casualties, yes? Jewish casualties yes. Now why did your Arab Islamic friends start the aggression after the Nov. 29, 1947 Resolution 181 was passed? Why did the Arabs have the Yishuv's (the Jewish governing body before the May 15, 1948 declaration of statehood) back against the wall until April of 1948 where finally the Jews went on the offensive?

 

The pan Arab Islamic apologists like to pick and choose their "massacres" and then when examined more closely one sees the insidious Arab involvement in precipitating the escalation and killing. Since Deir Yassin was mentioned maybe we ought to mention the Mt. Scopus Massacre of Jews in April of 1948 even before Israel became a nation-state (Martin Gilbert, Jerusalem in the Twentieth Century, p. 203ff.):

On April 14 a convoy made up of ten vehicles - two ambulances, three armoured buses, three trucks with food and hospital supplies, and two small escort cars - set off at 9:30 in the morning for Mount Scopus, after receiving an assurance from the British officer in charge that the road was clear. The vehicles containing doctors, nurses, patients (including an Irgun man injured in the attack on Deir Yassin), and Hebrew University staff, were clearly marked with the insignia of the Magen David Adom - the Red Shield Society - the Jewish equivalent of the Red Cross.

Shortly after passing through the suburb of Sheikh Jarrah while moving up the hill to the corner known as Karm al-Mufti, the convoy struck a mine. It had been placed there by an Arab tailor, Mohammed Neggar. The lead escort vehicle, whose occupants were armed, negotiated the crater and tried to act as cover for the rest. The ambulance immediately behind it and two of the buses were damaged and could no longer move. The six vehicles in the rear, including one whose driver had been shot in the face by an Arab gunman, were able to turn around and return safely to the city.

The escort vehicle, the immobilised ambulance and the two buses were then hit by a barrage of rifle and grenade fire from Karm al-Mufti, and by Molotov cocktails. Firing continued throughout the morning. Except for those in the escort vehicle, no one in the convoy was armed; that had been a British condition for allowing the doctors and nurses to proceed....The British military post responsible for the safety of the road was less than 200 yeards away...Colonel Jack Churchill...a half-track with a machine-gunner to accompany him..drove his own armoured car to investigate. As he reached the scene, armed Arabs were arriving from every direction, shooting at the convoy....By three o'clock that afternoon the two buses were on fire. Most of the passengers who had not yet been killed were being burned alive. At a quarter past three Dr Yassky turned to his wife with the words, 'Shalom my dear, it's the end.' At that very moment a bullet passed through the slit in the front armour of the ambulance, and Yassky was killed. Fifteen minutes later, at 3:30, following further requests from Colonol Churchill, troops of the Highland Light Infantry, commanded by Brigadier C.P. Jones, launched an attack on the Arabs surrounding the convoy. Within an hour the Arabs were driven off. Twenty-eight Jews, twenty of whom were wounded, were rescued. Seventy-seven Jews had been killed....The dead in the Hadassah convoy included several leading members of the Faculty of Medecine, among them Dr. L. Doljansky, head of the Cancer Research Department.. He took no part in any social or political activities except for expressing his conviction of the importance of Arab-Jewish friendship......Several people going up to the hospital for surgery were also killed.....

After the Hadassah convoy attack, the Arab Higher Committee issued a statement. The attack had been commanded, it said, by an Iraqi officer. His had been a 'heroic exploit.'.....'Had it not been for Army interference,' the Arab Higher Committee pointed out in anger, 'not a single Jewish passenger would have remained alive.'


 

71 posted on 12/03/2001 7:29:06 PM PST by Lent
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To: Lent
I take it you refuse to join me in attempting to get Britannica to alter it's text?
72 posted on 12/03/2001 8:21:36 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
I take it you refuse to join me in attempting to get Britannica to alter it's text?

Forget joining you. I've emailed myself. And what's your fight for truth? Continue to parrot Arab Islamic propaganda?

73 posted on 12/03/2001 8:46:22 PM PST by Lent
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To: Lent
Forget joining you.
I've emailed myself.
And what's your fight for truth?

Do you ever THINK about what you write???!!! I suppose in your narrow understanding of "join" you thought I was inviting you to my house to slide a stool up to the computer, you type with your left hand, I type with my right hand and TOGETHER WE'D "pen" one note to Britannica!

Since we have both e-mailed Britannica then we are joined in our effort to discover the truth.

That you are wedded to the silly notion that my "agenda" is deception with no regard to truth ought not bother me. . . but it does . . . a little.

Please "join me" in posting their reply?

74 posted on 12/03/2001 9:00:32 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
You can play around with your definition of "join" all you want. Your agenda is deception but I may be wrong because after all you don't "hate Israel" do you? It doesn't matter that most of your posts about Israel are entirely negative. I'll just put that aside as you search for truth.
75 posted on 12/04/2001 5:53:53 AM PST by Lent
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To: Phil V.
I have noticed where Islam, Judaism, and Christianity recognize Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant.

I also notice Islam splits from the others here. Judaism follows Issac, Islam follows Ishmael.

Gen 17:17-22

76 posted on 12/04/2001 6:10:06 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Thanks for the ping. Fascinating article.
77 posted on 12/04/2001 6:10:18 AM PST by Lurking Libertarian
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Right you are in Him, one faith,...the others lack faith in Him.
78 posted on 12/04/2001 6:11:26 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: jonatron
Elohim is the name for God used in matters of creation and power. Jehovah is used in matters of redemption. Review 1st 3 chapters of Genesis.

The crimson thread of redemption flows throughout Scripture. Thank You Lord!

79 posted on 12/04/2001 6:17:09 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: CdMGuy
I never once was taught that Abraham was the father of Christianity. Ever heard this before?

Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchizedek.

You'll find it in your missal(ette). If you're really Catholic, you'll know where to look. :)

AB

80 posted on 12/04/2001 6:38:23 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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