I believe in Allah and America

Wednesday November 28, 2001 | Arsalan Iftikhar

[John O]

We know that Jesus did not speak Greek because the Aramaic speaking people in the time of Jesus considered it sinful to speak any other language

Seeing as Jesus extensively quoted the old testament which was written in Hebrew I'd guess that He spoke Hebrew also. Kind of puts the lie to the 'He didn't speak other languages' noise.

Christians are often told that no one can go to heaven except by Jesus. This tells us that the only way anyone can go to heaven is to be Christ-like. Muhammad was such a man.

You need to read the scriptures again. We are to be Christ-like but the Word of God states that we are incapable of doing so (For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God). Only by accepting Jesus death on thecross as teh sacrifice for your sins can you go to heaven. And since the mohammedans deny the atoning death of Jesus I guess we know where they'll end up.

As to mohammad being Christ-like. Did Christ ever murder? No. Di mohammed? yes. Well I guess we can stop before we get into pedophila and rape and the rest of mohammeds sins.

name for Muhammad was in his mother tongue, Palestinian Aramaic

There wasn't then, nor is there now, (nor will there ever be,) a country called palestine. Therefore there is no palestinian Aramaic. There's just aramaic.

God Save America (Please)

[John O]

I am a Muslim and I am an American. I am proud of both and will compromise neither.

Seeing as America was founded on Christian principles, and seeing as those principles are contrary to mohammedism, you've already compromised one or the other.

GSA(P)

[TopQuark]

Ah, this would not be the SAME Turkey that slaughtered some 1.5 million Armenian Christians and made refugees out of another million more. You may have forgotten that this was NOT a religious war.

But the expulsion of Jews from Spain by Isabella the Catholic, as well as expulsions from England and France, were religion-motivated. We now talk about "expulsion" as if the refugees boarded Amtrak and left. A lot of them drowned in the Mediterranean, many have been raped and brutally murdered by pirates. No country would accept them: with the fall of Moorish Granada, Europe finally became Christian and was not going to let these "infidels" back in. It was, incidentally, the Turkish Sultan who not only allowed them in but invited them to come.

I could also point to more recent events: in the predominantly Christian Germany, millions of Jews and Roma people (Gypsies) have been murdered in concentration camps. You will hasten to tell me that Nazis acted NOT as Christians but as godless socialists. And that is my point exactly: Turkish violence against the Armenians was not an act of Muslims against Christians. This is not a religious act, just like a Mafioso who attends Church on Sunday and kills someone in cold blood on Monday does not act as a Christian.

Say what you want about Catholic Spain or France....but the United States has never slaughtered other religions

Absolutely true. The English-speaking people have always been more tolerant and democratic. It is they who perfected the idea of representation in government and codified it in the Magna Carta (1215) and the first English Parliament (1265).

You may find it interesting that the idea of representation was invented and practiced by the pagan Germanic tribes. Whenever they invaded other lands --- as in the case of Spain invaded by Visigoths, for instance --- they were almost immediately Christianized and thus Romanized to an extent. With that, the democratic notion of representation was forgotten.

In contrast, when the pagan English and Saxons invaded the British Isles, Christianity was wiped out and the realm remained pagan for another 150 years. The idea of representation took hold, grew strong, and survived later, after the Isles where re-Christianized by St. Augustine and his followers.

As you can see, it is tempting but erroneous to attribute some intrinsic tolerance, as it pertains to national, not personal, behavior. One could develop this further by pointing out the grossly authoritarian and otherwise intolerant behavior was not limited to countries with Catholic rulers. Martin Luther revolted against the Papacy, but he also urged his followers to round up Jews and burn them in their synagogues.

But your observation is correct: in comparison, the English speaking peoples were always more tolerant by comparison. And this is so not just with respect to other religions. The autodafe, burning at the stake was introduced to the Isles much later than in Iberia or Gall. The number of victims is also smaller --- by a factor of a hundred or a thousand. Some historians point to the representative government as the brake against religious zealots.

The fact of the matter is this: the overriding reason why the United States has freedom of religion and speech today is because it was founded by persons with a uniquely Christian outlook. I am sorry, but this is factually incorrect. As I mentioned earlier, these freedoms go back to the pagan idea of representation. We owe it to the British that they perfected it after they became Christian.

Had it been Muslims who founded the colonies I daresay we would NOT be having one--tenth the freedoms we enjoy today. Also factually incorrect. Historians often bring Moorish Spain as an example of tolerance: under Islamic rulers, Christians, Jews and pagans lived in peace for centuries. Turkey is the only European country that has never had any repression against its small Jewish population: no restrictive legislature, no slaughter by neighbors. It's been 500 years --- not a brief moment.

One only need look at ANY Muslim nation today to see this. Absolutely! Today, what I call the "Islamic church" is vicious, intolerant, violent, non-accepting of any progress and diversity of opinion. We are at war with them. Although we have not started this war, we must fight it with all our might.

I am as angry as another person is. Maybe more, because for the last 15 years or so I anticipated that terror would come to our shores. Evil does not make exceptions: they started killing women and children in Israel, but I knew they would not limit themselves to that. Just like Hitler has not limited himself to the Jews and expanded his hate to Gypsies, Slavs, the world...

But even in the midst of our anger, we should focus our anger properly --- at the Islamic Church, which is today as brutal as Catholic Church was in the Middle Ages. The church is not religion, and just like Catholic Church has evolved, so "Islamic church" may progress to be peaceful.

We have to fight resolutely but focus our anger properly. This is the English idea, after all. Isn't it?

[Patria One]

In what way do you think Islam contradicts American principles? To suggest such would indicate that you don't know very much about Islam.

[Patria One]

Hebrew is a Semitic language of the Northern Central (also called Northwestern) group; it is closely related to Phoenician and Moabite, with which it is often placed by scholars in a Canaanite subgroup.

Spoken in ancient times in Palestine, Hebrew was supplanted by the western dialect of Aramaic beginning about the 3rd century BC..

Sorry John. Jesus spoke Aramaic.

[Patria One]

In the Islamic creation Adam and Eve ask for forgiveness from God and God forgives Adam and Eve so there is no Original sin carried forth from generation to generation.

[Jeff Head]

EclipseVI (or whoever wrote this), do you condemn the attacks of 9/11 as the acts of brutal terrorists, enemies of this nation, and your own enemies? ... enemies deserving of a terrible and just retribution?

Are you willing to state that the acts of 9/11 were in fact war by those who hate the liberty and freedom of this land and were in NO WAY justified and that America is in NO WAY at fault for the attacks?

Are you willing to condemn and fight any person, group or governmnet that participated in, or in any way supported the attacks?

Those are the questions I have for Muslim Americans, and any other American for that matter.

I respect your faith and beliefs, and I pray that you and other Muslims in no way believe that force, and particularly not the kind evidenced on 9/11, is the way to impart the morality that we both believe is critical to true liberty and happiness. It MUST be a matter of free will in so far as it does not infringe on others. The people killed on 9/11 were infringing on non one.

Again, please EclipseVI (or whoever wrote this), directly and without equivocation condemn the 9/11 attacks.

Regards.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"I use the term "liberal" a lot, too, have you noticed? And "conservative". And "Christian." And "Democrat" and Republican.

Gee, you're right, there is a pattern forming here."

Of course, why didn't I realize that. Calling someone a liberal or republican in conversation is exactly the same as charging someone is a bigot.

[Patria One]

How long was Israel a nation?

[John O]

In what way do you think Islam contradicts American principles? To suggest such would indicate that you don't know very much about Islam.

Lets start with just one to keep this simple. the koran commands that people be converted by the sword and that if they change to a faith other than mohammadism that they be killed. The American principle of freedom of religion is totally violated when someone is forced into a religion. the American principle of all men being granted inalienable rights, such as life, is violated when someone is killed for their religious beliefs.

In order for mohammadism to line up with American principles it would have to rewrite the koran.

GSA(P)

[John O]

Sorry John. Jesus spoke Aramaic

I never said He didn't. I said that He also spoke Hebrew since he quoted the scriptures which are in Hebrew. It's highly likely that he also spoke Greek and perhaps a little latin. After all he did speak to people other than just the Jews, (centurians and other roman officials, etc)

GSA(P)

[Patria One]

Hebrew was the liturgical language.. it was rarely spoken. Aramaic was the language of ALL the common people of the region. You may note Jesus spoke to the common people. That's one of the things that got him into trouble with the high Jewish muckity mucks.

You probably need to do a little research. You are completely wrong.

There was a "Palestine" according to the Greek scholar Herodotus who wrote Book 3 Thalia in 500 BC.

[lavaroise]

I am a Muslim and I am an American. I am proud of both and will compromise neither.

I am getting tired of those people claiming they are muslim and they love America. What we want to hear is if they hate what muslims are doing and if they are able to show repent in their own ideology as judeo christianity has shown time and again - criticising their bad behavior during the trek in the desert of Sinai for Jews and during the Crusades for the Christians.

Can muslim condemn their religion? No, they can't. Not a single prominent muslim has shown repent for the hatred the muslim world has for the west. Nough said.

[John O]

In the Islamic creation Adam and Eve ask for forgiveness from God and God forgives Adam and Eve so there is no Original sin carried forth from generation to generation.

So you believe that it's possible for a human being to live a completely sinless life at all times? That a human can never lie (even the slightest exaggeration is a lie), never be angry without just cause, never lust after anything, never be rebellious, never think incorrect thoughts etc? If so then you know nothing about human nature.

Mankind is fatally flawed. We are born into a sin nature as can be seen by the smallest of children instinctively lying. Surely God didn't create us this way as all that He does is good. Therefore we fell somewhere and let sin into our nature. For all have sinned.

Seems like the mohammedans have a poor logical grasp of reality if they missed something this basic.

GSA(P)

[SarahW]

When we see a nun covered from head to toe in her habit, we commend her on her devotion to God. But when we see a Muslim woman wearing hijab, she is oppressed. . . .Hardly

If men hit you with sticks when you venture outside without a headcovering, you are oppressed.

[Patria One]

Check again. Greek was the foreign language (the language of the foreigners) and not spoken by the indigneous people as a matter of pride. Nobody spoke Latin. Hebrew was reserved for the Liturgy and scholars, not commonly used or understood as MOST people couldn't read and write.

Many Palestinians, both Muslim and Christian, still speak Aramaic.

[Patria One]

You are missing the point of God's mercy and forgiveness and the concept of original sin visited on ALL generations.

You might enjoy reading the Koran even though it is slightly different from our beliefs, it would be wrong to call it evil.

[John O]

(hebrew as spoken and the existence of a region called palestine)

I'll give you the region name palestine but the country around Jerusalem was (and will be until Jesus comes back) Israel.

Jesus definitely spoke Hebrew when he quoted the scriptures. All (or at the very least the very vast majority) of copies of the OT are written in Hebrew.

I'd guess that He also spoke Greek and Latin. and maybe a spattering of other languages also. Seems to me that Jerusalem, as well as the rest of Israel was a pretty cosmpolitan area, at least during feasts with Jew coming from all over the world to celebrate.

GSA(P)

[John O]

You might enjoy reading the Koran even though it is slightly different from our beliefs, it would be wrong to call it evil.

I've read it and yes it is evil.

GSA(P)

[John O]

On languages

What language did Pilot speak? I'd bet it was Latin. What language are the scriptures written in? Hebrew.

Since Jesus read the scriptures and quoted from them we know that He spoke Hebrew.

I'm not saying He didn't speak something else in His day to day activities. I am just saying that He also spoke Hebrew (as all good Jews did) and possibly some Latin and Greek. (Got to speak to those foreigners somehow.)

GSA(P)