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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: Thanks for staying with us. I'm Bill O'Reilly. In the second Personal Story segment tonight, the November cable news ratings are in. And Fox News' primetime line-up is well ahead of CNN. This has surprised some media analysts because CNN has dominated war coverage in the past with their worldwide resources. And Fox News is only five years old. With us now from Washington is Bill Press, one of the hosts of the CNN program Crossfire. Mr. Press has written a new book called Spin This. In that book, he is none too friendly to your humble correspondent, me. Here's a quote.

"In the aftermath of the Marc Rich pardon, the ever so pompous Bill O'Reilly blasted President Bush for suggesting there were more important issues facing the country than continuing to talk about Bill Clinton.

What Mr. O'Reilly was really saying, of course, is don't try to stop me from talking about Bill Clinton because that's all I know how to talk about. Actually, O'Reilly deserves a special spin award for opening his ever so predictable nightly TV program with the warning 'caution, you're about to enter a no-spin zone.' He's just published a book called The No-Spin Zone. It should be called "The Nothing but Spin Zone."

Wow, I guess we're really terrible, huh, Bill?

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST, CROSSFIRE: Good evening, Bill O'Reilly. How are you?

O'REILLY: I'm all right.

PRESS: I wouldn't say you're so terrible. My point is simply that I think you should be honest and admit that we all spin. And you spin as much as I do or Bob Novak does or any of the other...

O'REILLY: I want you to give me one, since you're concentrated in your book on The Factor, somewhat, give me one example of how I've spun a new story, one?

PRESS: Well, first of all, I do have to say in all honesty that my pages about you, I think, maybe there are three pages in a 220-page book. So I don't...

O'REILLY: All right, I mean, just give me one example?

PRESS: I'll give you one example. I thought that when you had Donna Brazille on last June and you told her Donna Brazille, not tongue and cheek, I think very seriously, that if Al Gore had only appeared on The Factor, The Factor has so many viewers in Florida, that Al Gore would be President of the United States.

Now, Mr. O'Reilly, you have to agree that's just -- it's not a lie, it's not the truth, either. It's just spin.

O'REILLY: It's not spin, it's an opinion. And it was based upon the fact that he lost by 500-plus votes. If he acquitted himself well, there were enough independents in Florida who watch this broadcast, who may have voted for Al Gore. That's simple opinion. There's nothing spinning about it. You give opinion. I give opinion. Has nothing to do with spin. Can you give me one example where I've taken a news story and spun it in a way that's not been truthful? Can you give me one?

PRESS: Well, first of all, I do think that is spin. I think opinion is spin. I think commentary is spin, which you do every night. And by the way...

O'REILLY: That's ridiculous.

PRESS: By the way, I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong.

O'REILLY: No, it's ridiculous. Commentary and opinion is not spin. What spin is, is taking a set of circumstances, all right, and taking that circumstance and making it not what it is.

For example, James Carville is the king of spin. And he will take a President Clinton perjury situation and say it wasn't really perjury because it was only about sex. And everybody lies about sex. So therefore, it isn't perjury. That's spin. Not giving an opinion. Opinion has nothing to do with spin. So you don't know, you just don't know.

PRESS: No, wait a minute. Let me just respectfully disagree. I mean, I started doing television commentary in 1980 in Los Angeles. I did television commentary in Los Angeles on the news for 15 years. And you know what commentary is? You lay out the facts and then you give your spin on the facts. That's what commentary is.

O'REILLY: No, you don't.

PRESS: It's nothing wrong. You do it for...

O'REILLY: Now I know -- all right, now I got it.

PRESS: All I'm saying is, that's...

O'REILLY: Now I know why you're confused about The Factor.

PRESS: I'm not confused at all.

O'REILLY: Spin is not -- yes, you are. You're absolutely confused about what we do here. Everything that we do here is based upon fact. All right? We don't go into the lotus land of it's only about sex. All votes should count. We don't go into that lotus land at all.

We tell you what reality is. For example, in the Red Cross situation, the United Way situation, we tell you what the facts are, all right? And then we say, here is the good guy. Here's the bad guy. Now in your book, you me out to be a conservative idealogue, OK, which is foolish. It's not true and you know, can you back that up at all?

PRESS: Yes. I think anybody watching your show knows that you're a conservative. I'd submit if you weren't a conservative, you wouldn't have an hour on the Fox TV network.

O'REILLY: That's nuts. How can you back that up? Is Neil Cavuto a conservative?

PRESS: I think you ought to be honest about who are.

O'REILLY: Hold it.

PRESS: Now, so I want to come back...

O'REILLY: Wait a minute. I'm running this operation, Bill.

PRESS: But you asked me.

O'REILLY: No, I'm going to ask you a definite question. Paula Zahn a conservative? Is she conservative?

PRESS: Paul Zahn is now on CNN. Did you know that?

O'REILLY: All right, she had an hour program. And you just said if I wasn't a conservative, I wouldn't have an hour on the Fox News channel. Another absurd statement. Paula Zahn was not a conservative. She had an hour. Neil Cavuto has an hour. He's not a conservative. John Gibson, I don't know what he is. Come on. You make these statements. They're absolutely false and then you just kind of dance around them.

PRESS: No, no, no. This is what you typically do. You talk all the time. You never let anybody else get a word in. And then you throw out these things which are simply not true. There is a difference, as all of your viewers know, and as I know, between people like you and me who are commentators, who are pundits, who are paid to have an opinion.

And then there are those people who are newscasters. You're right. I don't know what John Gibson's politics are.

O'REILLY: Yes, but he's a pundit.

PRESS: I don't know what Judy Woodruff's are, I don't know what Paula Zahn's are. But I know what yours are because I watch the show. OK?

O'REILLY: No, you think you know.

PRESS: And you know what mine are because you watch Crossfire.

O'REILLY: All right, let me ask you another simple question.

PRESS: Now do you want this example or not?

O'REILLY: I want a specific example of my conservatism.

PRESS: OK. I'm going to give you an example of your conservative spin. OK? Here's how you opened the show on March the 3rd, this year. "Tonight, violent demonstrations on the rise all over the world as capitalism comes under assault and America's college campuses are being besieged with socialistic messages. We'll have a report. The first 100 days of Hillary Clinton in the Senate. Did she actually do anything? We'll find out. And was Al Gore antagonistic toward some of his students at Columbia? That's the word. Caution. You're about to enter a no-spin zone."

O'REILLY: Right.

PRESS: Now I just find that very funny. That's full of spin. That's nothing...

O'REILLY: Those are teases with question marks on them. Those are teases with question marks on them.

PRESS: Bill, be honest.

O'REILLY: I am being honest.

PRESS: You spin each of those things to the right, the way you see them, and then you call it no spin.

O'REILLY: All right, look.

PRESS: Come on, it doesn't lie.

O'REILLY: If we were that bad, if the The O'Reilly Factor was all spin all the time, as you say, why are we crushing your program? I mean, we are absolutely crushing Crossfire. Last night, 28, O'Reilly Factor, 12, Crossfire. We're wiping you off the map. If I was that dishonest, and that's spinful, why is that happening?

PRESS: Look, you have a good show. Congratulations if you do well. And you know what? I hope you do even better. All I'm saying is, I'm not at competition with you. We're not on at the same time.

O'REILLY: Yes, you are.

PRESS: I'm not jealous of you. All I'm saying is, you ought to be just honest with the people.

O'REILLY: All right, if I'm dishonest with the people and I'm a spinmeister, why are they watching this program?

PRESS: Well, here's my theory about that. It's the same reason that Rush is number one in radio, followed closely by Dr. Laura. It's the same reason, I think, Fox is doing so well. I think there are a lot of conservatives out there who don't want to hear two points of view. All they want to hear, if you'll let me finish...

O'REILLY: OK, we got four seconds.

PRESS: Well, I'll do it in four seconds. They want to hear people that they always agree with because they're very intolerant. So your numbers are very high. So are Rush's. So are Dr. Laura's, mazel tov. But it's all spin.

O'REILLY: Bologna. We'll be back in a minute.

PRESS: No, spin.

O'REILLY: Bologna, Mr. Press. We'll see you.

PRESS: All right, thanks, Bill.